Do School Trip Fees subsidise non-payers?

kboss2010

Maybe my school was mean but when I was at primary school in the 90s, if you didn't pay, you didn't go!

(Same went with my high school but I don't really count that in this discussion because it was a fee-paying school so the parents paid for everything one way or another anyway as we got no LA funding)

jellyhead

Toto wrote: »

Regardless of what we feel about benefits, the one place where this should not be an issue is in schools. Kids have enough to deal with just finding their own place in the world and how that fits with their peers. They have absolutely no control what so ever over what their parents earn or what they do with the money, nor do they have any control over what benefits the government deem to be appropriate for the family.

So regardless of how the school recoup the money, trips should be for everyone.

I agree - a struggling parent should be able to send their child to school every day in uniform and with their lunch paid for (or free) and not have to worry about anything further costs.

I'm friends with a lady who has learning difficulties. She has been on disability money since a car accident and I think her problems with concentration and reading might have stemmed from that. That's not relevant, but I just thought I'd add it in case anyone's sat there thinking that she shouldn't have had kids then, if she's too chaotic to care for them properly.

She gets her child to school on time with their hair brushed and a snack and drink for playtime but she struggles to cope with the frequent requests for art activities, models to be made at home, costumes to be provided, etc. and sometimes forgets about the school trips. I think she should be able to just send her daughter to school clean, tidy and on time, and school shouldn't be stressful for a little girl who isn't quite old enough to remember what extra things she should be bringing for each day. I hate seeing her little face crumple when she's standing in the line and realises that her mum has forgotten to provide her with something. School should be a stress-free time where she can just learn and play without having her mum's problems shown up.

I help where I can, but it's best to remind her and her mum of things rather than always hand over enough for two every time my son brings his stuff in - that would make her feel just as singled out.

jellyhead

nodiscount wrote: »

How very charitable.
But where do you draw the line? And what kind of message does it send children if you get the same as those whose parents actually make an effort? Isn't there a danger the child will grow up and think 'I don't need to make an effort because people will feel sorry for me and give me the same and those who do make as effort'?

Those who are in genuine need should get help but it shouldn't become a habit. Schools who offer a flexible payment plan are doing the best thing.

If the line needs to be drawn then it shouldn't be in primary school, or at least not before key stage 2.

The trips organised by our local primary are educational, and small children should be included in those. Sometimes it's the only time they go to the seaside, a forest, a museum, etc. and it helps their education to have these interesting trips provided alongside their learning about certain topics.

School does a lot of work based around the theatre trip every couple of years. Sometimes they get a group into school to perform a play and it's free for everyone, but other times they go on a coach trip to a theatre. With the amount of follow-up work that builds on their experience at the theatre it would be awful for the children whose parents didn't pay if they couldn't do that follow-up work.

jellyhead

con1888 wrote: »

When I was at primary school if you didn't pay fully you didn't go.

Only one trip was exempt from this rule in a way and that was the p6/7 week long trip to an outdoors centre, parents who didn't get free school meals paid £110 and those who did paid £40. Again if you didn't pay anything at all, then your child would not go on this trip.

We had a letter last year saying that if they put on the residential this year it would either be £240 for 4 nights, £130 for 2 nights or they wouldn't go at all. It would be completely free for those on FSM.

What is p6/7? Is that years 6 and 7, ages 10 and 11? At age 11 mine are in secondary school and if they don't pay they don't go.

kingfisherblue

jellyhead wrote: »

In high school the person on the till has a list and the FSM children are allocated a certain amount which they might have to top up, depending on what they have chosen. Perhaps the till staff get to know which kids are on the list and don't have to check each day, I don't know. A boy who is living with us and is on income support just applied for FSM and has been to claim it once. He had to stand there at the till and tell them his name, wait while they checked the list etc. and he found it quite embarrassing in front of his friends, but he's 17 so he can live with it.

This isn't the case in all high schools. My son has FSM, and in his school everybody has an account which requires their thumbprint - including all staff. £2 per day is added to the account of children on FSM. If this isn't spent, it is removed from the account at the end of the day, so unspent FSM payments cannot be carried over to another day. All pupils and staff can add money to their accounts via the school office or a payment machine.

jellyhead

kingfisherblue wrote: »

This isn't the case in all high schools. My son has FSM, and in his school everybody has an account which requires their thumbprint - including all staff. £2 per day is added to the account of children on FSM. If this isn't spent, it is removed from the account at the end of the day, so unspent FSM payments cannot be carried over to another day. All pupils and staff can add money to their accounts via the school office or a payment machine.

That sounds good :T

He wasn't actually embarrassed about being on FSM really, it's more that he's shy and it involved a conversation with a staff member he didn't know to see if he'd been put on the list yet, he didn't know the amount he could have, etc... Some of his subjects are in different schools - I assume he can only have the FSM in the school he's based at.

I don't know if a younger child would feel embarrassed though. I have no idea. My son's friend never went for his FSM but that's because he wanted to sit in the fields with his friends who brought sandwiches rather than queue in the canteen.

Teacher2

At the school at which I taught the poorer kids' trip fees were always picked up by the school. You would not believe the amount of money poured into schools by the government after 2003. My school budget went up from one to ten million over a decade. Schools are like businesses now, except they don'r create money, they spend it. Of course, money directed at poorer students can always be redirected by headteachers.

999pez

The letters from our children's primary school always mentioned that if they didn't get enough 'voluntary' payments then the trip wouldn't go ahead. Seems fairly definite that those who (always) pay cover those who (always) don't pay.
It seems that this is a primary school thing, as our eldest has just gone up to secondary school, and on their trips if you don't pay, you don't go.

seven-day-weekend

If it's an educational trip, they should go. If it's just a 'jolly', no (but those who've paid should - not the whole thing get cancelled).

Dunroamin

Toto wrote: »

If we are talking about teaching kids that things need to be paid for, then a better lesson would be to make the kids earn the trip money. So, have a £500 total cost (for example) and then get them to find ways the class can raise this, cake sales, car washing in the school car park on a Saturday, sponsored event. I think that would be a far more valuable lesson than choosing to exclude and single out certain children because their parents can't/won't pay. I'm actually horrified that there are some people who would condone this sort of act.

What would you do with the children (and parents) who didn't get involved in these fundraising activities - would you still let them go?