Do School Trip Fees subsidise non-payers?

WSO

jalestine wrote: »

I remember when I was 10 and didn't want to go on a residential trip. The head spoke to me and another boy after school for a minute, saying that if it's to do with the cost, they can help. Actually, it wasn't the cost, I was just scared to go, but it was such a lovely moment of being included, I announced to my mum I would go after all. It was a Catholic school, so they probs had money from the Church in cases of those who had trouble paying, or maybe the Church was subsidising the total cost, as it wasn't much.

Well, something positive about Catholics and school children, for a change.

Don't know wot my point is...maybe that children will remember being ex/included.

Speaking as a childless singleton who has yet to sign on and to date has only ever asked for help paying council tax, I can't comment on a lot of this; other than perhaps to give more food for thought on how the child can feel... even decades down the line.

Am I resentful that the tax I pay helps fund schools and other related services that I never intend to make use of? No - because I was that child on FSM and I used to dread taking letters home that asked for money, even when I felt it was a reasonable request.

If I feel resentment, then it's because my parents (who both worked until I was born) chose to stay on benefits all through my school life. We had Sky TV from day one, my dad smoked like a chimney and he made (and lost) his money from betting on the horses. While I never starved, I grew up on white label goods and most of my new clothes came from the extended family in the form of presents. The benefits system gave my parents an outlandish expectation for wage for their next (unskilled) job and so they were 'trapped by choice', I was ashamed they had no pride to try to provide for us without being so reliant on the state.

As a child in my position who was obviously dependant on benefits, I never expected to be able to go on any trip.

Yet despite this I still went on the expensive educational trips; 7 days coach trip to Germany in yr7, 7 days in France in yr8 and I was one of only 2 or 3 in the school to get to do the same exchange trip to Germany for 12 days in yrs 10 and 11.

Of course, my parents did not feel they should pay for these trips as they were on benefits, but as I was good at languages back in the day the school went out of their way to find funding for me to go. I don't know the details of all the funding sources, I suspect that as I had a member of the extended family in the staff, perhaps some of it was a family handout behind the scenes while the rest came from the school, LA and even external sources such as the Prince's Trust.

For all the trips I went on, the only obligation my parents had were to be responsible for my spending money which they begrudgingly paid for because I wanted to go and I wouldn't have gone if they didn't (to avoid my embarrassment/frustration at not having any I think).

With regards to the fun trips, I often opted not to go on any of them... I didn't like the idea of skiing, and I didn't feel it fair to expect the school to pay for the annual trip to the funfair or outdoor activity they had at the end of the year. That's not to say that I didn't go on the occasional day trip, when it was more economical for me to go I was persuaded to do so.

But yes children do remember being included/excluded even decades down the line, and I am thankful for everyone who gave me opportunities to learn through experiences as these were effectively the only 'holidays' I had growing up.

Better_Days wrote: »

Children who come from low income families are painfully aware of the way in which they are viewed by others. It seems to me the pendulum has swung too far if parents are querying a small proportion of £8 which 'might' go to 'the undeserving'.

Couldn't have said it better myself! :T

John_Pierpoint

peachyprice wrote: »

But it's not other parents who are subsidising the trip, it's the school.

And really, I don't think that's the norm TBH. Most schools send letters out with one price and ask parents having financial difficulties to contact them.

In Africa they have a saying that it takes whole village to raise a child.

It is so sad that many children don't have 4 grandparents on whom to call for a £2 contribution.

Jojo_the_Tightfisted

John_Pierpoint wrote: »

In Africa they have a saying that it takes whole village to raise a child.

It is so sad that many children don't have 4 grandparents on whom to call for a £2 contribution.

Yep, it was most inconsiderate of my grandparents to die before being able to pay for a school trip. And my father died before he could be tapped for cash, too - after all, that's more important than never living to see his grandchildren. :cool:

miss_t_2

I haven't read through all of this thread so I apologise if I repeat a previous posting.

In my school, a vast majority of our non payers are ones who use the "voluntary contribution" to get out of paying for their child, so we often just have permission slips returned to us and no money. I understand completely where parents genuinely can't afford to pay, but when they are walking round with the latest iPhone and driving 63 plate cars it does grate on me as I know I couldn't go somewhere that charges and just demand free entry and I definitely think this is a bad example to set for children as they aren't stupid, they know their parents haven't paid and boast about it when they are allowed to still go. As we then have to take everyone who has handed in permission, and we calculate the contribution asked for by dividing the overall cost by the number of children in the year group, if people don't pay, we have to cover the cost of taking their children out of our limited year group budget that we have allocated to buy extra resources for things like Visits in from outside organisations, specialist art materials, cooking ingredients etc. We always try to give a minimum of 2 months notice before a trip and if the cost is ever over £10 offer a payment plan also, though I think the most we have charged for was £14 for a zoo trip which we did subsidise through selling the cakes we made for a maths/literacy lesson.




Unfortunately non paying parents, was a massive issue for me last year, and we then had to take the awful decision of cancelling a trip due to lack of contributions as the deficit was so big that it would have wiped out our budget which runs from April to April, and we felt it was unfair to the children in the year group below not to have the same opportunities or resources because of parents in the present year group refused to pay for a trip "as they didn't have to." Needless to say as soon as we wrote to say we had to cancel the trip, we had all of our non paying parents offering to pay.


I have to also say, that although the cost of coaches nowadays is atrocious, the value of the experience that the children get from most trips is truly priceless, especially as when they go to places as part of a school group they have access to specialist workshops which they wouldn't normally. This makes it an even bigger shame that less and less opportunities are being offered to children because schools can't offered to subsidise them.

Treevo

Jojo_the_Tightfisted wrote: »

Yep, it was most inconsiderate of my grandparents to die before being able to pay for a school trip. And my father died before he could be tapped for cash, too - after all, that's more important than never living to see his grandchildren. :cool:

Are you reading something that isn't there because the post you quoted said 'sad' not 'inconsiderate'.

jellyhead

miss_t wrote: »

I have to also say, that although the cost of coaches nowadays is atrocious, the value of the experience that the children get from most trips is truly priceless, especially as when they go to places as part of a school group they have access to specialist workshops which they wouldn't normally. This makes it an even bigger shame that less and less opportunities are being offered to children because schools can't offered to subsidise them.

I think the trips are very good value. We usually pay around £7 if it's coach fare only.

I remember once when my eldest was going to a forest 'down the road' and was charged £6 coach fare. Some parents complained about the coach fare, but I knew that it would cost that much for me and my child to get to the forest on the bus anyway.

Maybe it's almost free for parents who drive, but when they were told they could always drive their child there and either tramp through the forest with them or hang around in the car park so they were there for pick-up (no phone signal in the forest, and the coach wouldn't be hanging around waiting while teachers babysat those whose parents weren't there for pick-up) those parents were less keen. Their faces when the teacher said it would be nice to have some parents along was priceless :rotfl: I enjoy going as a parent helper on trips but it's not everyone's cup of tea.

jellyhead

Treevo wrote: »

Are you reading something that isn't there because the post you quoted said 'sad' not 'inconsiderate'.

Well, obviously it's sad children's grandparents have died young. It can happen to anyone though.

Jojo KNOWS it's sad, but why mention it? I think the OP was implying that families are too broken nowadays.

My children have the full complement of grandparents and a great-grandmother who gives them some spending money if they are going on a residential. I wouldn't tap them for the cost of an £8 coach trip though!

Treevo

jellyhead wrote: »

Well, obviously it's sad children's grandparents have died young. It can happen to anyone though.

Jojo KNOWS it's sad, but why mention it? I think the OP was implying that families are too broken nowadays.

My children have the full complement of grandparents and a great-grandmother who gives them some spending money if they are going on a residential. I wouldn't tap them for the cost of an £8 coach trip though!

Why not? If you 'couldn't' afford it why would you rather expect the money to come from the school's budget or other parents?

paulineb_2

John_Pierpoint wrote: »

In Africa they have a saying that it takes whole village to raise a child.

It is so sad that many children don't have 4 grandparents on whom to call for a £2 contribution.

It is, but some peoples grandparents die before they are born, my gran on my dads side died just before I was born, my mum and dad split and I didnt see my dads dad, my grandpa on my mums side died of cancer when I was 9, so from birth until 3 years ago when she died I only had one gran.

Who was very involved in my life, but I would guess a lot of kids these days for various reasons dont have two sets of grandparents or even two grandparents living.

jellyhead

Treevo wrote: »

Why not? If you 'couldn't' afford it why would you rather expect the money to come from the school's budget or other parents?

I wouldn't. I'd rather my kids didn't go, but so far they've always been able to, except for the Alton Towers trip for the teenager but that was at secondary school where if you don't pay you don't go. I only had two children because I couldn't afford a third. I make sacrifices elsewhere, and my eldest has school trips for his birthday and christmas presents.

If I really couldn't stretch the budget enough to find the trip money and couldn't sell anything on ebay, etc. then I would borrow the money off either set of grandparents on long term loan if it was a trip where the whole class was expected to go on and was educational. Perhaps not everyone is able to do this though.

I grew up not going on trips and I wouldn't have asked my grandparents - they were poor too. Those trips were 'nice extras' rather than educational in the way that trips nowadays are integrated into the class work. If the whole class should go then yes, the school budget should pay for those who can't pay. My children won't be in that situation because I'm lucky not to be in the circumstances that some families are in.