Do School Trip Fees subsidise non-payers?

Strapped

Treevo wrote: »

Demanding? Just who should be paying for your child to go on a school trip then?

I think I've made that perfectly clear. There should not be a cost, in a civilised society, for education.

In practice, many schools - including the local one that one of my children is at - put on trips that they do not have the funds to pay for. These are paid for at my child's school from PTA funds. I personally would be quite happy for the funding from central government to be higher - so yes I do mean more tax.

paulofessex

As far as l am aware if a trip is part of the curriculum then the LEA should cover the cost.
I am aware of this due to my dispute with my kids primary school who wanted to charge £12 to take the kids to a local woods/forest which is free to anyone to go to, not even any parking charges, and this was within walking distance.

warmhands.coldheart

I don't get this whole "Voluntary" contribution. As far as I'm concerned if they don't pay they shouldn't be allowed to go. I know it sounds harsh but unless things are really really bad, £8 isn't a lot for a family considering it's for the child's education, just go off the fags for half a day, that'll pay for it !!

Strapped

Dept of Education's answer: http://www.education.gov.uk/popularquestions/a005627/school-trips

Oogies

I have just received a letter from my son's school (yr6) for a day trip to London to the National Gallery, Trafalgar Square and Lion King theater production. Total cost should be in the region of £80 plus, the school is asking for a voluntary contribution of £23... although this is quite high compared to other trips he has been on (they are usually between £2-£8) I think it is a wonderful opportunity for a very reduced cost and will happily pay. This is a trip that the school wants the whole yr6 to go on and I do realise £23 is a lot for some people...but they have arranged a way for parents to pay it off weekly and they have given us plenty of notice (3 months).

I do disagree with parents just refusing to pay even if they could manage to get the money together, but should the child really be 'punished' for this?

I am from South Africa and attended primary school in the 80's and it was a case of if you didn't pay you didn't go, and my parents always managed to pay (thank you Mum and Dad) but I remember feeling really bad for the kids that were left behind and so if I can pay for my kids and if to some degree my payment helps others less fortunate (or those whose parents have other priorities) then so be it...

bellaboo86

if your concerned ask for a break down of costs.

As someone that works in education I can say there I a lot more to a trip than just gong to a museum.

For example if the children were given a talk by someone at the museum the museum charge per child.

I know one trip where the museum were charging £3 per child for one session led by museum staff-(which are the experts after all). This £3 does not include the entry fee btw)

Also you have to book if you require somewhere for the children to eat their lunch. Yorvik/dig do this.

so whilst it might just seem a trip to a museum there are a lot of other costs.

Ron_McDon

... And can confirm we find out the cost of everything - coach, workshops, entrance fees - and divide that total between the no. of children in the class. We don't 'assume' people won't pay and increase the cost, we're not allowed to do this. We don't add a bit extra just in case - we're not allowed to do this. If a large number of parents don't pay we either fund the shortfall from the class/year group budget, find the money from elsewhere (PTA, grants) or cancel the trip.

We have to call it a 'voluntary contribution' as the government have told us we cannot 'demand' that parents pay. So if people don't pay we are not allowed to remind them or chase them up - no school should do that., it is not allowed.

I believe trips should be limited to a max 3 per year, should be as cheap as possible and should have educational benefit to a topic etc. Too often teachers just fancy a day out somewhere, and don't appreciate that £15 for a trip to the seaside is excessive!

People on this forum have made a lot of incorrect assumptions about how things work in schools - you should just go and ask if you're wondering, the teachers or the office staff should be happy to answer your questions!

emz118

I haven't read this whole thread, but just wanted to add/reiterate...

I am a teacher and have organised lots of trips. Schools are not allowed to add a bit on to each person to pay for any who don't pay. The last trip I organised worked out at something like £9.80 each child, but we couldn't charge a round £10.

Instead we used PTA funds to pay for the 80p for each child and asked for £9.

School budgets are ALWAYS tight. The school could find money to pay for trips, but something else would have to go... maybe a teaching assistant for example, meaning child:adult ration doubles. Would you rather your child had extra support in class or free school trips? I know which I would choose!!!

Teachers and schools are very aware of the current economic climate and we work hard to keep costs down as much as possible. Please spare a thought for the organiser who will have spent literally hours on planning, risk assessment, preliminary visits, staffing, first aid... not to mention the sleepless night for at least one night beforehand!!!

I hope your child enjoys the trip and it enhances their learning.

jellyhead

GwylimT wrote: »

I arranged a trip last year for 32 children, the coach cost £440, if a trip is vital, school will subsidise the cost, those who don't pay are paid for by school, however this only happens for x amount of trips. Our school will fund two trips per child (if they are receiving free school meals) but no more.

2 trips per year, per child?

My youngest's primary is aware that parents are struggling financially, so they wouldn't put on more than 2 trips per year :T

jellyhead

skyeblue wrote: »

not sure if it's been said already, but how do you know which if any children do not pay for their trips. Do the payers (or the non-payers) have to put teir hands up, so all the class knows who they are? I would hope the payment is made in a confidential manner, otherwise those who are subsidised would be singled out. I would also hope the free school meals kids are treated the same way, confidentially.

At our primary and secondary the payments can be made in class or via the office so it's confidential, as is any discussion with school and subsequent arrangement to pay a reduced cost or nothing at all.

The permission slips have to be chased, but sometimes the money is paid separately to the signing of the permission slip so it's still not obvious to the rest of the class who the non-payers are, even if the teacher has a clipboard and has to hunt out parents in the playground and ask them to sign a slip. Those parents might go straight to the office to make their payment.

With FSM it's 'hidden' at primary but not at secondary. In priamry the payments can be made via the office and parents can pay huge chunks of money at a time if they wish, or they can pay per day in the class room. Nobody knows how anyone else is paying, and FSM children could even put an empty money pot into the basket if they wished. Nobody would know.

In high school the person on the till has a list and the FSM children are allocated a certain amount which they might have to top up, depending on what they have chosen. Perhaps the till staff get to know which kids are on the list and don't have to check each day, I don't know. A boy who is living with us and is on income support just applied for FSM and has been to claim it once. He had to stand there at the till and tell them his name, wait while they checked the list etc. and he found it quite embarrassing in front of his friends, but he's 17 so he can live with it.