Do School Trip Fees subsidise non-payers?

nodiscount

Acc72 wrote: »

The above comment is very interesting.

It would appear that those experiences have affected you - possibly more than you would admit ?

Meaning what exactly?

JimmyTheWig

nodiscount wrote: »

I don't think it's fair to blame the school if these children fail... You can throw as money as you like at children who fail at school but if the parents/guardians aren't supporting them it can mean money down the drain.

If a school has lots of children who don't have internet access at home then that school will need more IT facilities for these children to do their homework in lunch clubs.
If a school has lots of children whose parents can't be bothered to read with their children (or, even, who can't read themselves) then that school will need to employ more staff to listen to these children read.

I agree that all children benefit from help at home, but if children don't get that help at home what do we do? Don't bother with them? Let them go through school under-achieving? Let them grow into a life of benefits and crime? Who does that help?
Or do we accept that some people need more help than others? Do we give those that need extra help extra help? Do we help _every_ child achieve their potential and grow into helpful, useful members of our society?

Nicki

nodiscount wrote: »

I don't think it's fair to blame the school if these children fail... You can throw as money as you like at children who fail at school but if the parents/guardians aren't supporting them it can mean money down the drain.

Sorry but this is just a ridiculous statement!

Are you seriously suggesting that if a child has no support at home, that his outcome in life will be identical whether he gets extra support at school, the same opportunities as all other children, or is excluded from some curricular activities on the grounds his parents haven't paid for them? Tosh!

Janepig

Nicki wrote: »

Sorry but this is just a ridiculous statement!

Are you seriously suggesting that if a child has no support at home, that his outcome in life will be identical whether he gets extra support at school, the same opportunities as all other children, or is excluded from some curricular activities on the grounds his parents haven't paid for them? Tosh!

It isn't ridiculous. Maybe it's just because I see more of it than most, but for years we've been throwing money at the problem of parents who can't be bothered to help their children, but their children still end up getting to their teens and going down the same route as their parents. That's not to say that we should wash our hands of these families, but money alone isn't the answer. I haven't got the answer, I wish I did because it depresses me no end when I see children, and now grandchildren ending up in the same cycle as their parents and grandparents. There's more help on offer to people now than there ever has been, but yet it still seems it's not enough.

Jx

flashnazia

Janepig wrote: »

It isn't ridiculous. Maybe it's just because I see more of it than most, but for years we've been throwing money at the problem of parents who can't be bothered to help their children, but their children still end up getting to their teens and going down the same route as their parents. That's not to say that we should wash our hands of these families, but money alone isn't the answer. I haven't got the answer, I wish I did because it depresses me no end when I see children, and now grandchildren ending up in the same cycle as their parents and grandparents. There's more help on offer to people now than there ever has been, but yet it still seems it's not enough.

Jx

Indeed. Frank field was right. Poverty of aspiration is a big problem and can't be cured by throwing money at at. I live in a deprived area and its sad to see the way children are parented.

macaroni

I work in school admin, although Im not directly involved with school trips in any way. However, I do know Schools charge parents the amount per pupil based on the actual cost of the trip. There is no extra added to cover non payers. But the cost for helpers is included. The cost of a coach is exorbitant and generally is the main constituent of the cost. If there are not enough payers a trip will not go ahead, however I have not yet experienced this happening. The max we would charge for a day trip is £15.
I'm not sure what budget shortfalls are paid from.


Schools get pupil premium payments for any child who has had free school means, for whatever length of time ( days, weeks month or years), over several years ( I cant remember the exact amount) and this money is used for the benefit of every child over the whole curriculum.

Shassa

Pupil Premium is paid for students who have been on FSM anytime in the last 6 years (Ever 6). It doesn't matter if you haven't claimed FSM for the last 5 years for example, the school would still be entitled to claim the extra funding.

The extra funding should be used to raise achievement for these students, help out with school trips, possibly pay for school uniform, musical instrument lessons etc.

Information of how the money has been used must be published on the school website.

surfsister

yes used to work in a school and those that pay do subsidize those that don't. I knew parents that had 3 kids and never paid for any trips but were always first in the coach! Not their fault of course!

guess you could take them to the museum yourself and meet the school party then pick them up again. we had parents do this. so no cost.

seven-day-weekend

What happens when the free school meals children are on holiday? They have to be fed then, don't they?

I think every responsible parent in the land should be able to make a cheap but nourishing packed lunch. However, there are those parents who are NOT responsible and I suppose it's those children that FSM are aimed at.

I know how people feel when they say you might not be eligible for free school meals but still can't afford £20 for a school trip. It's precisely because they are NOT on free school meals that they can't afford the trip! They have to feed their children themselves. We were in this position when our son was small.

I think probably all they can do is what we did, is try to save a few pounds here and there when they can and then maybe they will have enough when the time comes. But I can see how the situation can breed resentment, when some appear to get it all handed to them on a plate (no pun intended).

Mojisola

surfsister wrote: »

yes used to work in a school and those that pay do subsidize those that don't. I knew parents that had 3 kids and never paid for any trips but were always first in the coach! Not their fault of course!

It's very unlikely that the price was increased to cover the costs of those who wouldn't pay - school funds are available to make up the short-fall.