Appeals Process Changes for DWP Benefits and Child Maintenance from 28th October 2013

ani_26

As it states, there will be appeals process changes for DWP benefits and Child Maintenance from 28th October 2013, with the introduction of mandatory reconsideration now preceding an appeal. It's stated the time limit for mandatory reconsideration will be 28 days. What it doesn't state clearly, i feel, is that benefits will cease whilst in the mandatory reconsideration process, thereafter receiving assessment rate if the claim is continued to an appeal and through the appeal process, as i understand the information.



https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/appeals-process-changes-for-dwp-benefits-and-child-maintenance



https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/236733/appeals-reform-introduction.pdf



See page 6 of the above document for your 14 stage guide through the appeals reform journey.


I foresee a rise in queries on the benefits board and more stress regarding the WCA assessment, as some of the poorest and most vulnerable in soceity, will feel they have no alternative than to sign on for Jsa, with this new process, when they may rightly be unfit for work? Only those with strong resolve and a great deal of support, through their illness, will embark on the long trek of mandatory reconsideration and appeal. Who knows how long mandatory reconsideration will actually take, despite the fact it says 28 days? See here :-


https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/206026/foi-1885-2013.pdf




Maybe this could be made a sticky, please?

rogerblack

This is misleading enough that making it a sticky is probably not warranted in its current form.

Mandatory reconsiderations will not apply (other than PIP) for most come 28 October.

The only route for an ESA claimant into mandatory revision after then is:
Be fit, single, childless, with no housing costs in one of the extended pilot areas.
Apply for universal credit as you cannot apply for JSA.
Become ill, and apply for ESA (or the equivalent under UC), fail the Limited Capacity for Work test, and then go on to attempt an appeal.
It's hard to imagine anyone hitting this before perhaps Feb 2014.
Migrations from ESA to UC will come considerably later in the process for most.

For most people, the normal appeals process will continue past 28 october.

The other main inaccuracy is the 28 days.
Once you request a reconsideration (you cannot directly appeal any more), the DWP has _NO_TIME_LIMIT_ on how long it may take to do this.
The 28 days was a time limit from the time the reconsideration has been done, until the DWP send a pack of info to the tribunals service. And it is not supposed to come in till (IIRC) September 2014).
There is no time limit as to how long the reconsideration will take.
The claimant is supposed to continue with their UC claim - though they will now be expected to seek and apply for work (perhaps with a reduced claimant commitment due to their disabilities).
If they cannot do this, then they will be sanctioned, and their benefit stopped, and they will have to apply for hardship payments.
In many parts of the country it takes over 6 months for the DWP to reconsider a decision, and send the pack to the appeals service.

ani_26

rogerblack wrote: »

This is misleading enough that making it a sticky is probably not warranted in its current form.

Mandatory reconsiderations will not apply (other than PIP) for most come 28 October.

The only route for an ESA claimant into mandatory revision after then is:
Be fit, single, childless, with no housing costs in one of the extended pilot areas.
Apply for universal credit as you cannot apply for JSA.
Become ill, and apply for ESA (or the equivalent under UC), fail the Limited Capacity for Work test, and then go on to attempt an appeal.
It's hard to imagine anyone hitting this before perhaps Feb 2014.
Migrations from ESA to UC will come considerably later in the process for most.

For most people, the normal appeals process will continue past 28 october.

Then it is DWP's website which is misleading and has the incorrect information. Universal credit isn't widely "in use" yet. Look at the shambles in tameside.

When will these changes be introduced?

DWP introduced all three changes for Personal Independence Payment andUniversal Credit in April 2013.The changes will be introduced for all other DWP-administered benefits and child maintenance cases from 28 October 2013,and DWP will begin to report against the time limits from October 2014.


More information about Appeals Reform is available at www.gov.uk

.

rogerblack

ani_26 wrote: »

Then it is DWP's website which is misleading and has the incorrect information.
.

I don't disagree.

ani_26

rogerblack wrote: »

The other main inaccuracy is the 28 days.

Not my inaccuracy

rogerblack wrote: »

Once you request a reconsideration (you cannot directly appeal any more), the DWP has _NO_TIME_LIMIT_ on how long it may take to do this.

Can you imagine?

rogerblack wrote: »

The 28 days was a time limit from the time the reconsideration has been done, until the DWP send a pack of info to the tribunals service. And it is not supposed to come in till (IIRC) September 2014).

Despite the fact they now state 28th October 2013?

rogerblack wrote: »

There is no time limit as to how long the reconsideration will take.

What's the time limit for someone to last without an income?

rogerblack wrote: »

The claimant is supposed to continue with their UC claim - though they will now be expected to seek and apply for work (perhaps with a reduced claimant commitment due to their disabilities).
If they cannot do this, then they will be sanctioned, and their benefit stopped, and they will have to apply for hardship payments.

Exactly

rogerblack wrote: »

In many parts of the country it takes over 6 months for the DWP to reconsider a decision, and send the pack to the appeals service.

As many people know from experience? And that is just sending the pack to the appeals service........................

Add on the unknown time limit for mandatory reconsideration. If mandatory reconsideration fails, the time for an appeal, the time for a tribunal, it's an effective push on to Jsa, for most, regardless of whether they are fit for work?


I'm not taking out on you personally, RB. I just think there are many people who have no idea of what is about to hit. Be it 28th October 2013 or February 2014, there will be much confusion and hardship? Maybe it's intended to speed up the process or make it easier, cut down on appeals, but i can't see it happening when the Dwp is involved.






I see what you mean now. The inconclusive wording means DWP have 28 days to provide an appeal response, once you have reached the appeal stage, (a response being, for example, we have received your letter.) During mandatory reconsideration, the claimant will receive no income. There is no time limit for mandatory reconsideration, which is even worse, as during this time, the claimant will receive no income, as their Esa will cease.

Although the DWP state that from 28th October 2013, if you wish to appeal a WCA, you will first have to apply for mandatory reconsideration, which will take 28 days, during which your Esa will cease. Universal Credit, isn't that "Universal" as yet.

In fact, i know someone who was sent a letter last week, telling them they could move from Jsa to IB and asking them to apply.


The Dwp really is in a mess?


No amount of excuses can "cover up" what the government is trying to achieve, and ultimately, it's the poorest and vulnerable in soceity who will have to endure?

rogerblack

ani_26 wrote: »

The DWP state that from 28th October 2013, if you wish to appeal a WCA, you will first have to apply for mandatory reconsideration, which will take 28 days, during which your Esa will cease. Universal Credit, isn't that "Universal" as yet.

In fact, i know someone who was sent a letter last week, telling them they could move from Jsa to IB and asking them to apply.

JSA to IB would be extremely unlikely, and I think legally impossible at this point.
Do you mean JSA to UC?

What page is it claiming that WCAs after the 28th will have mandatory reconsiderations?

ani_26

rogerblack wrote: »

JSA to IB would be extremely unlikely, and I think legally impossible at this point.
Do you mean JSA to UC?

No, i definitely mean JSA to IB.

rogerblack wrote: »

What page is it claiming that WCAs after the 28th will have mandatory reconsiderations?

Read the whole document, in particular, page 3 and page 7, re Wca's after the 28th.


I'm having trouble posting links. Follow the first link in my first post, (gov.uk,) for the link to DWP appeals reform August 2013.


Read all the links i've posted. It's a revelation. There also a freedom of information post, from the Dwp, in my first post.


https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/236733/appeals-reform-introduction.pdf

dodgydave69

I'm totally confused. I currently have my ESA50 in with ATOS. Not heard anything from them as yet. BUT, if i go to a medical and get zero points and my letter from them is dated 1st November what will happen....will i have to request a mandatory reconsideration or will i just go through the regular appeals process? I'm single, no kids, i get Housing Benefit and as far as i know i'm not in any trial area of any kind as regards benefits. Dave.

rogerblack

ani_26 wrote: »

Read the whole document, in particular, page 3 and page 7, re Wca's after the 28th.f

Unfortunately - in DWP speak - especially now - 'From 28th october' may mean 'some time beginning in october 28th' - rather than 'in every case from 28th Oct'.

My understanding is that UC will be rolled out to the 6 pathfinder jobcentres come 28th Oct. ( Hammersmith,Rugby,Inverness,Harrogate,Bath,Shotton)
('The claimant commitment' - is introduced more widely - for most on JSA, but this is not UC)
Only to single, childless claimants able to seek work, with no housing costs.
As mentioned above - the first people to get mandatory reconsideration from ESA would come in the beginning of next year - as these claimants on UC get ill, and have to claim ESA. Once they fail, they can appeal though this procedure.

People on ESA are _not_ yet being migrated over.

I've been following this for a long time - a lot of the documentation is unfortunately out of date being merely slight tweaks to existing documents, without updating the actual dates, for political reasons.
They are unwilling to say just how slow the rollout is, and spin 'started from' as the date the first claimant will be put onto universal credit.
For example - the rollout began in April this year.
As of a month or so ago, the total number of people on UC was around 300.

I find my first post on the topic of mandatory reconsideration about 18 months ago.

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/3795345
https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/3914583


Quoting Iain Duncan Smith on the rollout.

The second aspect of what we are doing postOctober is we are then selecting some more difficult groups to run through the process to ensure that we understand how that works against our expectations, because we have done a lot of profiling and testing in this process. The third element that is important to understand is the parallel work that is taking place with the final developments in digital solution in terms of the IT.
All those three then mesh together next year to give us an expanded roll-out across all groups and-as our hope and expectation is on this, and I believe it will be the case-across both tax credits and Jobseeker’s Allowance. So we will meet our original goal but do it in a different way, but getting, I believe, pretty much to the same point as a result. The key point is we want to do just that point. In fact, Lord Freud was on at me about making sure we had some special facilities to test a number of those more complicated cases that may not be captured in the process of what we call the “once in, stay in” process.’ (Q25)
In addition, Lord Freud clarified that -
‘Just on this, as you will remember, even when we were looking at this two years ago we were planning to put the most vulnerable towards the end of the queue, for obvious reasons. So we have time to test really small numbers-and I am talking about tens to start with-to get those lessons and then start to get maybe a few hundreds to test the vulnerabilities.’ (Q29)

By 'post october - he doesn't here mean 'everyone is being transferred' - but 'small numbers of claimants with housing costs and on ESA (likely dozens I heard mention of somewhere) will be migrated to UC to test things.


It's going really, really slowly.

jacques_chirac

ani_26 wrote: »

In fact, i know someone who was sent a letter last week, telling them they could move from Jsa to IB and asking them to apply.

I think you have misunderstood, or we are applying acronyms differently. There is a letter that would invite someone to apply for IB JSA (income based) if they are on CB JSA - there is certainly no standard letter that would tell them they could move from JSA to Incapacity Benefit.

ani_26

rogerblack wrote: »

For example - the rollout began in April this year.

Yes, and from April 2013, new claims and renewals for Dla are for Pip, exactly as stated?


See thread here :- http://www.publications.parliament.uk/pa/cm201314/cmhansrd/cm130906/debtext/130906-0002.htm#13090627000004


If you read the full transcript, MP Sheila Gilmore raised her concerns about the cessation of Esa during mandatory reconsideration.


Full transcript here :-

http://www.publications.parliament.uk/pa/cm201314/cmhansrd/cm130906/debtext/130906-0002.htm#13090627000004

Although mandatory reconsideration has yet to come into full effect, my constituent Ms Rose Burgess already faces that predicament in a related situation. She suffers from arthritis and depression, and she applied for ESA earlier this year. She underwent a face-to-face assessment and was declared fit for work. She appealed, and the judge upheld the DWP’s original decision. However, when she then claimed jobseeker’s allowance, she was told she was ineligible because she had a fit note from her GP. She was not entitled to ESA, and she was told that she was not entitled to JSA either. Her condition has since deteriorated further and she has now reapplied for ESA and is awaiting the application of her fresh application, but her example shows how easy it already is for people to slip into the limbo between ESA and JSA, even without the mandatory reconsideration period.


6 Sep 2013 : Column 657

Similarly, another constituent who suffers from back problems was claiming JSA. His problem flared up when he was due to attend his work-focused interview. When he arrived at his jobcentre and explained that he would be unable to manage to climb up the stairs to where the interview would take place, he was told that his claim would be ended because he was not fit for work. He raised the matter vigorously and the situation was rectified fairly quickly, but that example demonstrates the emphasis placed by jobcentres on JSA claimants being fit and available for work.
For people whose claim to ESA is marginal and whose health problems are not too great—some people might believe that is what I am describing—a brief period on JSA might be just about manageable. However, Camberwell Myalgic Encephalomyelitis Support Group has told me that it currently works with many people who score zero points on their initial assessment, but who, after appeal, are placed in the support group. The appeal shows that they have serious health conditions, but they might find themselves in that position. The Camberwell group says that many of those whom it helps find that they cannot physically get to a jobcentre on certain days, as is required under JSA.
The scale of the problem that people are likely to face is exacerbated because there is less discretion on sanctions than previously. A leaked memo from Walthamstow Jobcentre Plus showed earlier this year that a targets culture appears to have emerged on sanctioning, whether or not Ministers have explicitly sanctioned it. At the very least, we must consider reintroducing a degree of flexibility in the sanctions regime when we are dealing with people who have health problems.
In the other place, Lord Freud referred to other sources of income that people could access during that period, but I am not clear what he meant by that. I expect that most claimants are similarly at a loss. I would be grateful to the Minister if he could explain what other sources of income people could access.
One way to limit the impact of the gap in payment would be for the Government to set a statutory time limit on how long the Department for Work and Pensions can take to complete a reconsideration. However, they have deliberately omitted to do so. On 13 February, Lord Freud stated that “a number of respondents” to the Government’s consultation
“suggested that there should be a time limit on the reconsideration process…we are not making any statutory provision for this. Some cases are more complex and require additional time—particularly, for example, where extra medical evidence needs to be sought. However, we recognise the concern here and are considering the scope for internal targets.”—[Official Report, House of Lords, 13 February 2013; Vol. 743, c. 744-45.]
I fear that non-binding and non-public internal targets simply will not be adequate, especially given the pressure that the much-reduced Department for Work and Pensions staff are under. As a result, it is possible that people who will eventually be deemed entitled to support will be left without income for a protracted period.
I raised the issue with the Minister at the Select Committee on Work and Pensions on 21 November 2012, and asked about it again at Work and Pensions questions on both 11 March and 20 May 2013. On the last occasion, he emphasised that, if people do not claim JSA, their ESA claim would be backdated should they appeal and have their fit-for-work decision overturned.

6 Sep 2013 : Column 658
However, in many cases, the damage will have been done. With no income during that period, people run the risk of becoming destitute. Many will have to rely on already stretched food banks. Some will be driven into the hands of payday lenders, amassing debts they will struggle to repay even if benefits are subsequently reinstated.
The Minister can do a number of things to address the problem. At a minimum, it would be helpful if he provided the House with information, first to confirm exactly when the new system of mandatory reconsiderations will begin. Secondly, he could give the House information on what alternative sources of income people have if they cannot claim either ESA or JSA. Thirdly, he could tell us what internal targets he will introduce on the time taken for mandatory reconsiderations.
Several changes would help at least to alleviate the worst effects of this policy. One example would be to reintroduce a degree of flexibility into the sanctions system, so that ESA claimants declared fit for work and having their claim reconsidered are not subject to normal JSA sanctions. Alternatively, the Minister could put a statutory limit on the time DWP can take to conclude the reconsideration process. But the one thing that would resolve this issue entirely would be to amend the regulations to allow ESA claimants to continue to receive ESA at the assessment rate during the reconsideration period. Otherwise many people who the state will later conclude should not be available for work will be required to claim a benefit that explicitly requires that they should be. Many people will end up without any support from the state, being too fit for ESA, but too sick or disabled for JSA.

Looks like they have their discussion?