Appeals Process Changes for DWP Benefits and Child Maintenance from 28th October 2013

osdset

portly1 wrote: »

But that has always been the case. Apply for a reconsideration - no money - put in an appeal, money starts up.

People only have themselves to blame for this for trying to circumvent the system by wanting to go straight for an appeal instead of applying for a reconsideration and then if that failed put the appeal in.

Money is at the very heart of this - people will try to work round anything to get the money rolling in again. Unfortunately the government have noticed this and have put a stop to it.

Besides which no other benefit that I know will continue to be paid after being told that people aren't entitled to it but by appealing it is put back into payment.

Pity that they don't do that with DLA - when you fail you fail. You only get paid if you win at a Tribunal.

People seem to forget that JSA is available when the ESA claim is thrown out.

If confidence had been maintained with the reconsideration process ie DM's not routinely rubber stamping ATOS decisions, then claimants might have been more willing to use that route.


Why should a claimant go for JSA if they and their GP feels that they have a genuine case for ESA?

skintmacflint

osdset wrote: »

Why should a claimant go for JSA if they and their GP feels that they have a genuine case for ESA?

They don't have to go for JSA, they can wait for a reconsideration first, but it seems won't be paid the assessment or appeal rate for a few weeks until it's done.

ani_26

portly1 wrote: »

But that has always been the case. Apply for a reconsideration - no money - put in an appeal, money starts up.

People only have themselves to blame for this for trying to circumvent the system by wanting to go straight for an appeal instead of applying for a reconsideration and then if that failed put the appeal in.

Money is at the very heart of this - people will try to work round anything to get the money rolling in again. Unfortunately the government have noticed this and have put a stop to it.

You can't judge everybody by the same standards. Not everybody is trying to defraud the benefit system?

portly1 wrote: »

People seem to forget that JSA is available when the ESA claim is thrown out.

For which you have to be fit and fulfil the criteria for work. Not everyone necessarily fits this criteria. Otherwise, why would we have Esa in the first place. Why not abolish Esa completely? There are no sick or disabled people in a perfect world?

skintmacflint wrote: »

They don't have to go for JSA, they can wait for a reconsideration first, but it seems won't be paid the assessment or appeal rate for a few weeks until it's done.

If you are living on the breadline you can't always afford to save for emergencies, let alone one weeks "nil income."

skintmacflint wrote: »

but it seems won't be paid the assessment or appeal rate for a few weeks until it's done

And the rest?........................................................................

osdset

The problem that needs addressing is the fact that the assessment process via ATOS is not impartial and is set up to fail the claimant. If assessments were carried out properly many cases would not need reconsideration or referral to appeal.

In many cases the tribunal hearing is the first time medical evidence is given proper consideration, and the appellant or their representative can argue the case, this is denied them under reconsideration.

If the issue is over money why then do the government suggest that claimants can apply for JSA when the benefit amount is exactly the same as ESA whilst waiting for appeal? If on the other hand someone is directed to claim JSA in the knowledge that in all probability they will be refused, then it's an agenda to save money.

Just because a claimant fails a WCA it does not mean that they do not have limited capability for work, there are so many flaws in the system that it's basically unreliable. However the DWP routinely accepts the HCP's assessment as gospel.
Mandatory revision will deny people the right of a fair hearing by restricting their ability to support themselves while they wait, the waiting time for tribunals is stretching longer by the month, I personally waited eight months for mine, add to that the open ended timescale for reconsideration and it's not beyond the realms of possibility that claimants will be hanging on for a year or more, if they haven't starved to death in the meanwhile.

portly1

osdset wrote: »

If confidence had been maintained with the reconsideration process ie DM's not routinely rubber stamping ATOS decisions, then claimants might have been more willing to use that route.


Why should a claimant go for JSA if they and their GP feels that they have a genuine case for ESA?

So what is wrong then in making people ask for a reconsideration first and appeal second?

The vast majority of people that appeal their ESA decisions never supply any further evidence to the DWP when making that appeal. The new system will force people to submit a half decent submission as to why they think the decision is wrong backed up with evidence without the need to actually appeal against the decision.

As I have said this is all about money. They don't like the idea of their benefit stopping if they fail the assessment. They will take every shortcut possible to get it back into payment.

How would they go on if it ended up like all of the other benefits - you only get paid if you win at a Tribunal probably 12 months down the line. If that happened it would certainly put a rocket up their backside to get the evidence and submission at the earliest date ideally with the ESA50!

I have yet to meet a GP who feels that their patient has a genuine case for ESA. Most don't have a clue what ESA is.

portly1

skintmacflint wrote: »

They don't have to go for JSA, they can wait for a reconsideration first, but it seems won't be paid the assessment or appeal rate for a few weeks until it's done.

Yes it is as simple as that - I don't see what the problem is.

portly1

ani_26 wrote: »

You can't judge everybody by the same standards. Not everybody is trying to defraud the benefit system?

If you are living on the breadline you can't always afford to save for emergencies, let alone one weeks "nil income."

And the rest?........................................................................

I'm not talking fraud, I'm talking manipulation of the system.

People up to now only see £ notes. They don't want to go for a reconsideration because they know that they won't get paid. So what do they do, they play the system, ignore that step in the proceedings and go straight down the appeal route. Doing it that way will get them paid.


There are not that many people in this country that are that destitute. There will always be food and shelter provided by the various charities.


That is your opinion - the reconsiderations could take days!!

osdset

portly1 wrote: »

Yes it is as simple as that - I don't see what the problem is.

No because it probably does not effect you.

portly1

osdset wrote: »

No because it probably does not effect you.

You are right it won't affect me. I also doubt that the number that are complaining will all be affected and become destitute.

If things are that bad in not having any food in the house etc, there are plenty of charities that will help out in the interim.

osdset

portly1 wrote: »

You are right it won't affect me. I also doubt that the number that are complaining will all be affected and become destitute.

If things are that bad in not having any food in the house etc, there are plenty of charities that will help out in the interim.

Ok it's plain that you are an apologist on behalf of the government. And as you have such a blinkered view on a complex issue, I won't waste any more of my time engaging you.

G'bye