Appeals Process Changes for DWP Benefits and Child Maintenance from 28th October 2013

ani_26

jacques_chirac wrote: »

I think you have misunderstood, or we are applying acronyms differently. There is a letter that would invite someone to apply for IB JSA (income based) if they are on CB JSA - there is certainly no standard letter that would tell them they could move from JSA to Incapacity Benefit.

No. They already receive Income Related JSA, ( IR JSA.)


The invitation was definitely from JSA to IB, ( Incapacity Benefit.)


The correct terminology is either Income- Related ( IR ESA,) or Contribution- Based (CB ESA,) Employment and Support Allowance.

jacques_chirac

ani_26 wrote: »

No. They already receive Income Related JSA, ( IR JSA.)


The invitation was definitely from JSA to IB, ( Incapacity Benefit.)

Do you have a copy of the letter? If you could remove any personal details and post it, it would be helpful to see?

rogerblack

ani_26 wrote: »

No. They already receive Income Related JSA, ( IR JSA.)


The invitation was definitely from JSA to IB, ( Incapacity Benefit.)

This would not usually be possible.
It might, for example, result from a decision that there has been an error in stopping someones IB - and that they have never legally not been on IB, they've just not been paid through error.
New claims for IB are not actually possible legally, and have not been in most circumstances since 2008.

And I agree, some more detail on the letter would be useful, however it's either a one-off through very unusual circumstances, or an incorrectly generated form letter.

ani_26

rogerblack wrote: »

Quoting Iain Duncan Smith on the rollout.

By 'post october - he doesn't here mean 'everyone is being transferred' - but 'small numbers of claimants with housing costs and on ESA (likely dozens I heard mention of somewhere) will be migrated to UC to test things.


It's going really, really slowly.

It's still in black and white on DWP website.


Says it here too :- http://disabilitynewsservice.com/2013/09/dwp-dismisses-talk-of-fitness-for-work-catch-22/



NOTE : DWP also apologised this week after a mistake in a Freedom of Information Act response suggested that the introduction of mandatory reconsideration for ESA had been postponed until October 2014.

ani_26

rogerblack wrote: »

This would not usually be possible.
It might, for example, result from a decision that there has been an error in stopping someones IB - and that they have never legally not been on IB, they've just not been paid through error.
New claims for IB are not actually possible legally, and have not been in most circumstances since 2008.

And I agree, some more detail on the letter would be useful, however it's either a one-off through very unusual circumstances, or an incorrectly generated form letter.

As a matter of interest, maybe i should look into this further.

ani_26

jacques_chirac wrote: »

Do you have a copy of the letter? If you could remove any personal details and post it, it would be helpful to see?

Will get a copy of the letter. Not possible until next week, though.

ani_26

dodgydave69 wrote: »

I'm totally confused. I currently have my ESA50 in with ATOS. Not heard anything from them as yet. BUT, if i go to a medical and get zero points and my letter from them is dated 1st November what will happen....will i have to request a mandatory reconsideration or will i just go through the regular appeals process? I'm single, no kids, i get Housing Benefit and as far as i know i'm not in any trial area of any kind as regards benefits. Dave.

The evidence would suggest this.


Perhaps someone from the DWP or even an MP will be along soon, with a definitive answer?


I may be wrong, but i suspect there is either a huge backlog with Atos, or Atos and the Dwp are holding back from WCA's until the 28th October?


Just my thoughts.

portly1

Am I right in thinking that ESA is the only benefit that you can continue to get even though you may have been turned down after being told to 'get a job'?

If that is the case why aren't all of the other benefits dealt with in the same way? Or is it not better to bring ESA into line with all of the other sickness/disability benefits?

Seems confusing to me.

rogerblack

portly1 wrote: »

Am I right in thinking that ESA is the only benefit that you can continue to get even though you may have been turned down after being told to 'get a job'?

Yes, and viewed from one perspective this is reasonable.
If, for example, DWP assessments were always correct, and the JSA people knew how to properly deal with people with difficulties.

The fundamental thing to understand is the existing system was not broken to this degree until quite recently.
Forgive me if I don't look up the figures, but from memory, before the introduction of ESA (2008), appeal timescales were in the 8 week range.
This meant it was quite reasonable to say 'benefit continues at the same rate as JSA during an appeal, and you can't claim for the same condition within 6 months of a dissallowance.
The actual loss to the taxpayer is very small - 8 weeks * the probability the person will get a job.

Unfortunately, now appeal times are more like a year in many cases.
Which make the 6 month rule kind of silly, as you can immediately reclaim.

The major problem is the quality of ESA decisions can be quite bad.
Considering people with existing long-term health conditions - well over half of those appealing succeed.

A fundamental reason has been until recently at least - DWP decision-makers spent about half an hour per claim.
Clearly - if they spent an hour, it would cost more.
But - not even one weeks benefit more.
Better decisions - including informing people _why_ they are not eligible - perhaps even actually calling them if there is an ambiguity would save money.

The proposed scheme 'works' - if every claimant knows how to properly use the system, can borrow money to cover the gaps, responds to letters promptly, can negotiate how to get a hardship payment with the JSA people if they fail to be able to actively seek work, or do work, and all the JSA staff are properly trained.

For someone who may turn up at a jobcentre confused and not really with-it, it's lots more problematic.

joebolton

rogerblack wrote: »

This is misleading enough that making it a sticky is probably not warranted in its current form.

Mandatory reconsiderations will not apply (other than PIP) for most come 28 October.

My understanding is that all ESA customers that fail the WCA from 28/10/13 will be go to reconsideration prior to appeal.