Speeding fine letter spelled my name wrong.

Johnmcl7

portly1 wrote: »

As a matter of interest, when you send it back and give the correct details - name and address etc, how would DVLA add the points to a licence if that licence had never been updated since the 80's with an address that they hadn't lived at since 95 and since then 7 more addresses? Would the DVLA be able to trace the licence from the updated info if all they had was old info?

Just interested as my old green paper licence was issued in 1978 with no updating ever been made to it - yes I know it is illegal, but I never get round to it.

If the license is not surrendered to the DVLA for points to be added, the license is revoked and the driver given 28 days (previously 12 months) to sort it out, during this time they are still allowed to drive with the revoked license. If the license is still not surrendered then the driver no longer has a valid driving license and therefore they are not allowed to drive on public roads.

Note this is a completely different procedure than when licenses are revoked for new drivers where if they received six or more points within two years of getting their license, they go back to a provisional.

John

poppasmurf_bewdley

I once got off a speeding fine because the constable put down Morris Mini on the summons when I was actually driving an Austin Mini Cooper. The magistrate actually commented that the officer obviously hadn't been paying attention to detail so how could they rely on his information.

But this was about 40 years ago so things might have changed.

I would ask for advice on the Pepipoo site.

polomints

Yes I have been offered a speed awareness course, that's why I thought I'd start this thread, I think I'll just do that rather than risk a fine and three points or something worse.

The thing is I normally do to 30 there even though I think it's an arbitrary limit (and I think arbitrary limits IMO only serve to increase the socially acceptable nature of speeding in general as well as giving pedestrians and other people not familiar with the road a false idea of actual traffic speed) and normally get a tailgated for my trouble or just cause a tail back, I'd just come out of the junction and accelerated too fast that day straight into the sights a speed camera van.

portly1

Johnmcl7 wrote: »

If the license is not surrendered to the DVLA for points to be added, the license is revoked and the driver given 28 days (previously 12 months) to sort it out, during this time they are still allowed to drive with the revoked license. If the license is still not surrendered then the driver no longer has a valid driving license and therefore they are not allowed to drive on public roads.

Note this is a completely different procedure than when licenses are revoked for new drivers where if they received six or more points within two years of getting their license, they go back to a provisional.

John

So you are saying that if the license isn't physically handed over within the 28 day period the license is revoked?
What happens if the license cannot be found? What grounds are there for the license to be re-issued after the 28 days? Or do you have to go through a re-test?

I don't know about you but if this is correct and the revocation takes place, I can envisage a situation where it will be entirely possible to actually be in possession of TWO driving licenses if you retake a test and pass and then apply for your old license to be re-issued with the points added - all manner of thoughts and possibilities are swimming around my head with what you can do if you can obtain TWO licenses quite legally!!!

Johnmcl7

portly1 wrote: »

So you are saying that if the license isn't physically handed over within the 28 day period the license is revoked?
What happens if the license cannot be found? What grounds are there for the license to be re-issued after the 28 days? Or do you have to go through a re-test?

Revoked is the term used by the DVLA but in this case the more accurate term would be suspended- you continue to have a license and entitlements but they're not currently valid for driving. If you can't find the license you would apply for a new one which would come to you with the points added, once the 28 days have expired you can still get the license sorted out by getting the points added - you do not have to take a test again.

What is confusing is that licenses are also revoked under the new driver's act but this means something completely different - when the license is revoked, the entitlement is removed and the person has to go back to a provisional driving license and resit their theory and practical tests to get their driving entitlement back.

I don't know about you but if this is correct and the revocation takes place, I can envisage a situation where it will be entirely possible to actually be in possession of TWO driving licenses if you retake a test and pass and then apply for your old license to be re-issued with the points added - all manner of thoughts and possibilities are swimming around my head with what you can do if you can obtain TWO licenses quite legally!!!

No, this would not be possible under any circumstances because you would need a provide your license to resit the tests and because your license would still show you having the entitlements, you wouldn't be able to sit the tests again. You wouldn't be able to get a new provisional license as the system would show you already have a license.

John

Guest101

You can still dispute the whole thing in court, if you choose, but your defence needs to be about the offence itself, not the details on the letter/summons.

If you can prove that the offence didnt take place, or place reasonable doubt on the credibility of the evidence, then yes you can get away with it, so to speak

portly1

Johnmcl7 wrote: »

Revoked is the term used by the DVLA but in this case the more accurate term would be suspended- you continue to have a license and entitlements but they're not currently valid for driving. If you can't find the license you would apply for a new one which would come to you with the points added, once the 28 days have expired you can still get the license sorted out by getting the points added - you do not have to take a test again.

What is confusing is that licenses are also revoked under the new driver's act but this means something completely different - when the license is revoked, the entitlement is removed and the person has to go back to a provisional driving license and resit their theory and practical tests to get their driving entitlement back.



No, this would not be possible under any circumstances because you would need a provide your license to resit the tests and because your license would still show you having the entitlements, you wouldn't be able to sit the tests again. You wouldn't be able to get a new provisional license as the system would show you already have a license.

John

Thanks, it is rather confusing to me. So if someone had their licence 'suspended' all that meant was that entitlement was still there but you would have no licence to entitle you to drive?

So based on the normal terms set out in a motor insurance policy - you would still be covered to drive (because you hadn't been disqualified from driving - purely suspended only) but you couldn't drive because the licence was suspended?

- your insurance company would cover you to drive but the DVLA wouldn't allow you to!

Based on what I have found out on here in the past 24 hours, all of my cars have been fully insured but I have probably been driving around for the past 14 years with a suspended licence! This has never been a problem as I have never had to produce my licence to the police in that 14 year period and have not been stopped by the police whilst driving.

Only another 5 more years to go when I know I will have to renew my old green paper licence for a new style one as I will be 70 then.

Johnmcl7

portly1 wrote: »

Thanks, it is rather confusing to me. So if someone had their licence 'suspended' all that meant was that entitlement was still there but you would have no licence to entitle you to drive?

Yes, the license isn't removed entirely as the revoke term implies.

So based on the normal terms set out in a motor insurance policy - you would still be covered to drive (because you hadn't been disqualified from driving - purely suspended only) but you couldn't drive because the licence was suspended?

- your insurance company would cover you to drive but the DVLA wouldn't allow you to!

This is also correct and it's an important point as it's frequently misunderstood, as you say the wording of the insurance policy is that must not be disqualified from driving so you'd still be covered by your insurance if your license had been revoked for failing to surrender it.

The difference between the two is that when the courts are considering banning a driver for a more serious offence, they will insist they come to court as the ban is immediate and they need to be aware of it as it's considered a more serious offence to drive while disqualified. However for lesser motoring offences where there's just points involved the courts will convict in absence which can mean if there's been an issue with addresses the driver is entirely unaware their license has been revoked. So given the revokation happens due to a lesser offence and can occur without the person knowing, the penalties resulting from it are less harsh.

Based on what I have found out on here in the past 24 hours, all of my cars have been fully insured but I have probably been driving around for the past 14 years with a suspended licence! This has never been a problem as I have never had to produce my licence to the police in that 14 year period and have not been stopped by the police whilst driving.

Only another 5 more years to go when I know I will have to renew my old green paper licence for a new style one as I will be 70 then.

Are your V5's up to date for the cars? If so, you probably don't have an issue as it's the address on the V5 that's used to find the driver of a vehicle. So for example if your wife was the registered keeper of the vehicle and you were caught speeding, they would first send a NIP/S172 request to your wife at the address on the V5 asking her to name the driver at the time of the offence. She would then name you and provide your address details and after that you'd then get a S172 request which you'd provide your details and signature to confirm it. So your driving license address wouldn't actually come into it normally.

In some cases people will find out they have a revoked license when they're pulled over by the police and the license status is checked, in other cases they may find out when bailiffs are trying to track someone down for an unpaid court fine as they will search further than just using the address on the driving license.

John

ILW

polomints wrote: »

Yes I have been offered a speed awareness course, that's why I thought I'd start this thread, I think I'll just do that rather than risk a fine and three points or something worse.

The thing is I normally do to 30 there even though I think it's an arbitrary limit (and I think arbitrary limits IMO only serve to increase the socially acceptable nature of speeding in general as well as giving pedestrians and other people not familiar with the road a false idea of actual traffic speed) and normally get a tailgated for my trouble or just cause a tail back, I'd just come out of the junction and accelerated too fast that day straight into the sights a speed camera van.

The courts could not care less about what you think.

ILW

Johnmcl7 wrote: »

Yes, the license isn't removed entirely as the revoke term implies.



This is also correct and it's an important point as it's frequently misunderstood, as you say the wording of the insurance policy is that must not be disqualified from driving so you'd still be covered by your insurance if your license had been revoked for failing to surrender it.

The difference between the two is that when the courts are considering banning a driver for a more serious offence, they will insist they come to court as the ban is immediate and they need to be aware of it as it's considered a more serious offence to drive while disqualified. However for lesser motoring offences where there's just points involved the courts will convict in absence which can mean if there's been an issue with addresses the driver is entirely unaware their license has been revoked. So given the revokation happens due to a lesser offence and can occur without the person knowing, the penalties resulting from it are less harsh.



Are your V5's up to date for the cars? If so, you probably don't have an issue as it's the address on the V5 that's used to find the driver of a vehicle. So for example if your wife was the registered keeper of the vehicle and you were caught speeding, they would first send a NIP/S172 request to your wife at the address on the V5 asking her to name the driver at the time of the offence. She would then name you and provide your address details and after that you'd then get a S172 request which you'd provide your details and signature to confirm it. So your driving license address wouldn't actually come into it normally.

In some cases people will find out they have a revoked license when they're pulled over by the police and the license status is checked, in other cases they may find out when bailiffs are trying to track someone down for an unpaid court fine as they will search further than just using the address on the driving license.

John

Could driving on a revoked license void ones insurance?

Sorry, didn't read it properly.