Brother borrowed 20k without consent

ALIBOBSY

OP I think there will always be posters who say get to the police straight away. These are the same ones who post to cut family out of your life or leave a partner depending on what the original posting is.

Now I am not saying this advice may not end up being what the person posting does, but I always think the RL situation tends to not be as black and white as those sort of instant pronouncments.

Given what you said about his past character this sounds like he has let things slide and been doing what lets face it,led many of us to this site. Borrowing too easily and spending on a lifestyle we are "supposed" to have instead of living within our means.


Hopefully this can be worked out between you. I doubt any of you will ever forget this but perhaps you can forgive him and move on as a family-if obviously he co-operates and is willing to admit his issues.

Good Luck

Ali x

NANANINANOONOO

Just want to say a HUGE thank you to everyone who has taken the time & trouble to comment, it has been a big help being able to speak about it and reflect on other peoples views. I will explore all avenues & hopefully may be able to post an update about this at a later date if/when some sort of resolution is found. After all reading the outcome of this scenario may aid others going through anything similar.
Thank you again.

forgotmyname

ALIBOBSY wrote: »

OP I think there will always be posters who say get to the police straight away. These are the same ones who post to cut family out of your life or leave a partner depending on what the original posting is.
I would have no hesitation reporting a crime whether its my mon, nan or own children.
Seen too many people let things slide only for it to get worse. Sister with a child that steals from family members, Cries and promises not to do it again. Then literally weeks later caught yet again.


Now I am not saying this advice may not end up being what the person posting does, but I always think the RL situation tends to not be as black and white as those sort of instant pronouncments.
Very true, Not all the info will have been posted by the OP. Previous family history/issues. But we can only guess and offer our opinion.
And it is usually our opinion rather than a black and white answer. You must....


Given what you said about his past character this sounds like he has let things slide and been doing what lets face it,led many of us to this site. Borrowing too easily and spending on a lifestyle we are "supposed" to have instead of living within our means.
Been there done that. Learnt a lot from this site. CC minimum payments will keep you in debt forever...
But i didnt steal someone elses money to pay it off Even though i had the means to.


Hopefully this can be worked out between you. I doubt any of you will ever forget this but perhaps you can forgive him and move on as a family-if obviously he co-operates and is willing to admit his issues.

Good Luck

Ali x

Everyone thinks differently.

[Deleted User]

I have to say, I think you are being rather lenient, describing it as "borrowed".

ALIBOBSY

forgotmyname wrote: »

Everyone thinks differently.

Absolutely and I do think that in the end sometimes people push things too far and you have no option, but to go to the police/cut them out of your life.

I guess that's the beauty of a forum like this, you get a wide variety of opinions to any posting.

Good Luck to the OP and his family whatever they decide to do.

Ali x

Leblanc_2

It appears from your description that this is a case of greed. Someone who is living beyond their means and willing to detrimentally affect a loved one to continue in this lifestyle.
Your brother's response to your father indicates that he has no respect or care for him. He feels that he can brush your father off and get away with what is essentially a crime. His responses to your father have been glib and have treated him as some sort of mental incompetent.
You have a certain duty of care for your father, but only if he wants it, and either accepts or rejects it in a fully functioning capacity.
If he has full capacity and requires your intervention, then it is your duty to intervene in terms of an attempted recovery of the money. If he does not, then you will have to respectfully stand back.
If you are to be involved, in the first instance I would approach your brother with a witness and get his response to the charge. Purely due to family connections I would keep the police out of it, until your brother does not accept his responsibility to pay the money back. It would also have to be a significant and meaningful repayment process, not just tokenism.
You give the impression that you are afraid to confront your brother. Even though your father does not want you to step in to recover the money, I would still ask your brother for an explanation of his actions. His actions may also be financially detrimental to you in the future in terms of a small inheritance, so at the very least, you have a right to get his response.
There is always a paper trail, so it is not absolutely necessary to wait until you have all the evidence, unless of course your brother can somehow jeopardise obtaining the evidence.
In conclusion, your brother's current or previous financial position is irrelevant to your duty of care to your father.

fabforty

OP, I also think that you are being too nice. It just sounds as if you are all tiptoeing around your brother despite the theft.

Even if your dad does not want to call the police (which I understand to a point, although disagree with it), I personally would have confronted your brother about it already and I would make sure that he knew that he needs to start paying it back, even if it means handing over his wages or whatever income he has every week or month. I would also ensure that the rest of the family knew what he had done - including his adult children. Perhaps the shame of everyone knowing what a despicable thing he has done will make him start trying to put it right, and importantly stop him from doing it again (either to your father or anyone else who might be stupid enough to trust him).

Instead of hoping that your brother has his light-bulb moment, you need to make him have one. He isn't in denial. He found a way to pay his debts without fear of repercussions or payback and apparently he was right.

NANANINANOONOO

I do hear and understand what some posters are saying & I am not in denial, I do know my brother has stolen from our father & I dont need a paper trail for myself. I am not tiptoeing around things out of respect of fear of my brother but more out of respect for my father and his wishes.

In all honesty compared to my rather sensible & perfect brother & being a female to boot I was an honest but rather rebellious teenager in my youth so I guess I have always lived in his shadow. It was a natural progression that I have always believed it right to take a back seat to him through our adult life too, so it has come as a real shock to me as well as my father to learn how dishonest he has been. I have struggled in my life but I have been content with my lot and my children have had a happy home life, I know I could never ever steal a single penny from my dad or anyone so I feel very angry (as I am sure my father regrets) that we have always trusted my bro implicitly – but I suppose that’s how dishonest people get results.

For this reason it is daunting & upsetting for me at 58 to deal with but I will do what is needed for my father I just need to be armed with the paperwork & factual proof about the withdrawals before I confront my bro so he cannot bury the truth or sugar coat any of it with his calm demeanour. It’s important I stay calm & I don’t want to give him any opportunity or reason to lie.

I do think family members should be told but again this will come better from my bro admitting what has happened or my dad having proof to show them. At his age it will break my dad’s heart to divide the family so this cannot be done on supposition, there needs to be no element of doubt that theft has occurred whether police are involved or not.

As I have explained at this stage I have no idea what financial problems my bro has but the more I consider unfolding events along with info gleaned on here, the more I fear the money is lost forever. My main priority is to seek some peace of mind for my elderly dad (currently very active & in good health) & definitely not any inheritance I may have lost out on.

rainbowfairydust

fabforty wrote: »

OP, I also think that you are being too nice. It just sounds as if you are all tiptoeing around your brother despite the theft.

Even if your dad does not want to call the police (which I understand to a point, although disagree with it), I personally would have confronted your brother about it already and I would make sure that he knew that he needs to start paying it back, even if it means handing over his wages or whatever income he has every week or month. I would also ensure that the rest of the family knew what he had done - including his adult children. Perhaps the shame of everyone knowing what a despicable thing he has done will make him start trying to put it right, and importantly stop him from doing it again (either to your father or anyone else who might be stupid enough to trust him).

Instead of hoping that your brother has his light-bulb moment, you need to make him have one. He isn't in denial. He found a way to pay his debts without fear of repercussions or payback and apparently he was right.

I have to agree with most of this post ^^. BUT I can understand why you feel the to "proof" before you confront your brother. As with fabforty the whole family needs to be made aware of the situation - i personally would be mortified if i found out my father had been on the take from a family member and i would certainly want to help out as much as i possibly could, even if that meant making a small sacrifice to my life. I personally would find it very difficult knowing that my grandparents were suffering. It breaks my heart to think about it. I guess this all depends on your neices though? Do you think they would help their grandfather ?

OP .. i have been keeping up to date with this thread since i first noticed it last week. I cant imagine how you must be feeling right now. I am very sorry that you are faced with this situation. It is obvious from the tone of your posts that you are distressed by the current goings on ( which is obviously no big surprise) .

I just wanted to post to send you a hug. :grouphug:. I really wish for a positive end result, and that your father at least gets some of the money back.

NANANINANOONOO

Well for those following this thread... we received some papers today and the full extent of my fathers ill founded trust in my brother is becoming more & more evident. My father has always worked hard and my mother always managed their finances, she was very frugal leaving my father with no need or concept of managing money or paying bills etc. so when she died he was a bit lost.

It was lazyness on dads part but he trusted my bro to handle his finances like our mum did so he has not kept a close eye on his money but I had no idea quite how much money my dad had or how much my bro had access to. Judging by the amounts that my bro has filtered from dads various accounts (now empty) dad has not monitored his accounts at all for the last five years and the figure missing is totting up to more than double the original 20k and it is 50k so far and may be worse.

A pattern has emerged whereby my bro has taken various amounts from different savings accounts each month paying less and less back until one by one in turn each account is has been emptied. My dad has basically only concentrated on his current account totally ablivious to whats has been happening to his other accounts, hence he has only discovered everything now because his final current account is empty.

Sadly my dad is not yet aware of the full extent that has been filtered and however niave and trusting he has been I am not sure that he can prove he did not know or consent to some of it. I am now just awaiting some copies of telephone conversation transcripts (that were clearly my brother posing as my dad) before confronting my brother :0(