Brother borrowed 20k without consent

dancingfairy

Hi. What a horrible situation. I think a lot will depend on how sorry your brother is and what he will do to put the situation right.
What he needs to do is get in touch with one of the debt charities such as National Debtline, CAB, StepChange etc and sort himself out. I'd also be wanting to see him commit to a regular payment plan to your father.
If he has gambling or addiction issues then he should seek counselling for these.
If he is unable/unwilling to get help for his debts and set up a payment plan then I would definitely go to the police. You may also want to consult an age charity (Age Concern/Help the Aged?) as they will be aware of elder abuse.
In terms of recovering the money I fear you have little realistic chances. You may be able to take him to court and to secure a charge against the property but this will obviously cost in fees etc. If you download the land registry title for his property you should find out if there is just the mortgage on there or whether he has any secured loans or whether there any other creditors have got charges which may inform your decision as to whether to pursue this in court.
Best of Luck
df

ALIBOBSY

OP I suspect your brothers car probably has a loan against it, given the other details you gave.

I suspect bro was struggling to keep up with the cards/debts in 2011 and in his mind thought he would "borrow" the cash from Dad's account to clear the debts. Then instead of cutting the cards up and saving up to repay he fell into the oldest trap there is and ran up the debt again. I suspect he will feel a great deal of guilt although I know this doesn't help you or your Dad.

As a parent I can see from your Dad's p.o.v you would be devastated and feel betrayed, but even so I would give my last penny and see myself on the street over my kids and even in this situation, although heartbroke, would not want to see them in trouble with the police. So I think you need to be prepared that your Dad may not want to go the legal route, even if it means writing off his money.

I know older people worry about not having a lump sum to fall back on, but you said he spends little of his pension so at least he will be building that back up.

If something happens to his partner, he may well find now he has no savings he qualifies for more help and benefits for rent and such and hopefully his partner will carry on for a good while anyway enabling him to save up more to fall back on. If he could save £100 a week its £5200 a year. One or two years will see him with the fallback to pay a deposit on a flat etc.

I agree with waiting for the documents and then calmly confront your brother with it. I would ask him to be honest about what he owes so at least you know the chances your Dad has of getting his cash back. As the other poster suggested the grow up nieces and nephews will need to know that their Dad is not the "rich" guy they thought he was and start to pay rent, you can help your brother to sort a plan to use this to clear debt and start to repay his Dad.

Your bro needs to have his lightbulb moment as so many on here have-in fact get him to join the site and read this thread. He has been stupid and no doubt has had many restless nights about this, but he cannot bury his head in the sand any more.

Hopefully done like this, if bro will work with you, you can get through this as a family. If you go to the police- no chance and I doubt any money will come back to your Dad.

Obviously if the bro refuses to talk about it and face up to the issues, then there may be no other option.

Good Luck

Ali x

RuthnJasper

So very, very sorry for you OP. Neither you nor your father deserve this; it must be completely devastating.

I am in fairly dire financial straits myself - but could never, ever, consider stealing from my parents (or indeed anyone) to get myself out of trouble. It sickens me to think of how your father must be feeling.

Others have already made excellent suggestions - here is a link to age.co.uk (Age Concern and Help the Aged, as they were); there is a free 'phone number to call there, perhaps an anonymous chat with them may help? - http://www.ageuk.org.uk/money-matters/money-management/

I can appreciate the delicacy of your situation, but I'd still be inclined to involve the Police (personally, although I do respect why your father doesn't want to) - your brother stole a great deal of money which belonged to someone else. Regardless of who stole from whom, or whether or not the victim "can afford it", stealing is stealing and it's revolting.

Best wishes, OP. I do hope that things can be worked out and that happier times are ahead for you and your family. x

Tixy

If you want to try an assess how bad a situation your brother is in you could look to see if he appears on the insolvency register (i.e. if he has entered an IVA). Or you could look to see if he has any CCJs against him in the last 6 years (search online at the registery trust online - costs £8 per name/address).

Whilst it might not help recover Dad's money, it might help you assess the chance of any money being paid back.

You ask what happens if he is about to lose everything and the big companies getting their money back. The extreme would be for one of his creditors to petition for his bankruptcy. If that happens then Dad needs to ensure he is classed as a creditor.
When made bankrupt any assets from the bankrupt person, and the IPA payments (that they pay from their salary for the following 3 years) are split equally between unsecured creditors. So father would need to be listed as being an unsecured creditor.

bess1234_2

See if your brother will read the debt free wanabe section, or failing that you have a read. People get into debt very easily and very often trying to pretend they are richer than they are. But his actions to avoid taking responsibility are appalling. He made that choice to rob his father, and he has to face up to it. It will be hard from him, but that's life. He may be able to put it right, but it does sound like he's in a mess, and letting him get away with it doesn't help him. Your poor father

cyclonebri1

I hope you get a better/more sympathetic reply to this than I got when I posted a similar situation recently:(:(:(:(:(:(:(:(:(:(:(

Dam Puritanicals, ;)

ginetta77

This isn't of any help to the OP, but anyone else reading this and possibly heading in to the same situation..

One person should never have sole access to accounts in this sort of situation. There should at least be two people accessing them, even if it's only one person viewing them, just to ensure that nothing like this happens. To restrict other people to be even able to view accounts is liable to open up temptation like this.

forgotmyname

Sorry OP your being too nice. The title says he borrowed £20k. No he didn't he stole it.

If he had borrowed it there should have been some attempt to pay it back.

The only legal way i see you getting anything back is report the theft.

NANANINANOONOO

ALIBOBSY wrote: »

OP I suspect your brothers car probably has a loan against it, given the other details you gave.

I suspect bro was struggling to keep up with the cards/debts in 2011 and in his mind thought he would "borrow" the cash from Dad's account to clear the debts. Then instead of cutting the cards up and saving up to repay he fell into the oldest trap there is and ran up the debt again. I suspect he will feel a great deal of guilt although I know this doesn't help you or your Dad.

As a parent I can see from your Dad's p.o.v you would be devastated and feel betrayed, but even so I would give my last penny and see myself on the street over my kids and even in this situation, although heartbroke, would not want to see them in trouble with the police. So I think you need to be prepared that your Dad may not want to go the legal route, even if it means writing off his money.

I know older people worry about not having a lump sum to fall back on, but you said he spends little of his pension so at least he will be building that back up.

If something happens to his partner, he may well find now he has no savings he qualifies for more help and benefits for rent and such and hopefully his partner will carry on for a good while anyway enabling him to save up more to fall back on. If he could save £100 a week its £5200 a year. One or two years will see him with the fallback to pay a deposit on a flat etc.

I agree with waiting for the documents and then calmly confront your brother with it. I would ask him to be honest about what he owes so at least you know the chances your Dad has of getting his cash back. As the other poster suggested the grow up nieces and nephews will need to know that their Dad is not the "rich" guy they thought he was and start to pay rent, you can help your brother to sort a plan to use this to clear debt and start to repay his Dad.

Your bro needs to have his lightbulb moment as so many on here have-in fact get him to join the site and read this thread. He has been stupid and no doubt has had many restless nights about this, but he cannot bury his head in the sand any more.

Hopefully done like this, if bro will work with you, you can get through this as a family. If you go to the police- no chance and I doubt any money will come back to your Dad.

Obviously if the bro refuses to talk about it and face up to the issues, then there may be no other option.

Good Luck

Ali x

This is exactly the path I am hoping to take. I am hoping my bro will open up to me and together we can somehow set him on the right path even if dads money is gone forever. However stupid he has been I feel sure inside he is full of guilt and probably desperately blundering through debt in denial & hoping it will all go away.

My bro has always been much loved and admired by us all and has been such a reliable old fashioned stalwart. He always lived a quietish life with nice things seeming as tho he is doing very well thanks - clearly he has lived way above his means for a long time, having family holidays & giving his daughter a big wedding etc. Ironically I for one have always been really pleased for him while we've all plodded along modestly and I confess I am hating the reality of it all now but Im trying to rise above those feelings and more than anythng else I am heartbroken. I find it difficult to believe he has come to this and I know other family members would be in total disbelief.

I know my father will not want to take action & neither do I want him to, after all there is little to be gained from this now the deed is done but my bro must open up and lay all his cards on the table in order for us his family or anyone else to help him and for our family to stay in one piece as anything else will destroy my dad. My only hope is that my bro will not be in denial about everything that is going on.

[Deleted User]

Completely agree, it's theft.

I don't know your brother, or indeed anything about this situation other than what you have posted, but he sounds like a spineless !!!!.

That last word will have been hashed out but I think you probably get the gist.