Brother borrowed 20k without consent

dktreesea

troubleinparadise wrote: »

The brother/son unconditional family relationship is already lost due to his continued deliberate deception and theft of his father's money over a matter of years.

It is the actions of the son that have led to the situation as it is today.

The son could arrange to pay all the money back tomorrow, but he will not repair 100% the damage to the relationship he has chosen to cause.

It may be that there will be a rapprochement over time, but it will never erase that betrayal of trust.

How would you handle it?

I am in a situation where that very scenario could play out. I would probably want a good relationship with my sibling more than I would care about the money. My Mum could live for another 20 years, as could the OP's father. Yes, I can see such a scenario would affect her standard of living. But by the same token, if she had given up all responsiblity for managing the funds and then hadn't subsequently regularly monitored the situation, I realise it's possible whoever is managing her money might help themselves.

dktreesea

NANANINANOONOO wrote: »

Dad has been made fully aware of possible consequences by the authorities and safeguarding team and has not made the decision without long and heartbreaking consideration without influence from anyone, hence the delay in progressing to arrest. He has tried to contact his son over and over and his nephews and neice also but has had no response not even regard for his wellbeing so it would appear they may be naturally divided by loyalty to their father and what they potentially may have to lose financially. Dad feels he has already lost the son he thought he had and is sadly resigned to whatever the future may hold for our family :0(

It is indeed drastic but dad has been left little choice as its seems all is lost anyway, its important to remember none of it is dads doing and is all my brothers responsibility, it his he who has destroyed his own family and ultimately his childrens lives, 50k cannot be deemed a fair fee for helping a parent do anything.

I can understand your dad's decision to prosecute if he can't afford to take the loss. But at some point your Dad chose to pass all his financial responsibilities, for managing his own finances, onto your brother. If your brother didn't have permission, then he has clearly done the wrong thing. And yes, your niece and nephews will stick to their dad because he is the one providing for them (notwithstanding a huge chunk of the money came from your dad!)

Do I think your brother was unwise? For sure. If he had got the money from the bank, i.e. as a loan, and not paid it back and gone bankrupt, the whole affair would be a civil matter (unless the bank could prove he had borrowed the money with no intention of repaying it), but because, instead, he helped himself to your Dad's money, it's become a criminal matter.

I feel for your Dad. He's caught between a rock and a hard place, because he can't afford to take the loss. None of us know what the future will bring for this particular sort of issue; it could happen to any of us.

NANANINANOONOO

dktreesea wrote: »

I am in a situation where that very scenario could play out. I would probably want a good relationship with my sibling more than I would care about the money. My Mum could live for another 20 years, as could the OP's father. Yes, I can see such a scenario would affect her standard of living. But by the same token, if she had given up all responsiblity for managing the funds and then hadn't subsequently regularly monitored the situation, I realise it's possible whoever is managing her money might help themselves.

My dad did not give up responsibility he is an intelligent man with all his facalties bodily and mentally, he merely let my brother put him online banking on his computer because dad was between homes and stayed with his son for a few months and it seemed to make life easier. Dad thought his son only had access to his current account & this was in order to make paying for car any repairs and anything else my brother did for him more instant rather than owing my brother for parts and having to travel or delay paying him especially after dad moved to his new home. That consideration by my father is a joke in itself now!

Because my dad trusted his son (as most people do) that situation just continued. Dad did not check his savings accounts because he did not need to touch them and natrally assumed they were sitting untouched, whereas my brother was systematically syphoning them off to zero.

I have explained I loved and felt close to my brother but for him to have done this to our father through greed and because he found he had access is unfathomable, I cannot see how you can say "I realise it's possible whoever is managing her money might help themselves" as though stealing someones money is acceptable! It is not me or my father who has destroyed a family but my brother, he has shown no remorse and no care for my father whatsoever since this has been uncovered, believe me the betrayal has been more heartbreaking than anything else.

We are talking about a good kind honest hardworking man who has been left pennyless after being robbed of his 50k nestegg at a time when he should be enjoying his good health in his twighlight years, he is now reduced to asking for financial help from others for the first time in his life. I still love my brother and have tried to understand but I have to honour my fathers wishes and support him through this.

kanute50

dktreesea wrote: »

I can understand your dad's decision to prosecute if he can't afford to take the loss. But at some point your Dad chose to pass all his financial responsibilities, for managing his own finances, onto your brother. If your brother didn't have permission, then he has clearly done the wrong thing. And yes, your niece and nephews will stick to their dad because he is the one providing for them (notwithstanding a huge chunk of the money came from your dad!)

Do I think your brother was unwise? For sure. If he had got the money from the bank, i.e. as a loan, and not paid it back and gone bankrupt, the whole affair would be a civil matter (unless the bank could prove he had borrowed the money with no intention of repaying it), but because, instead, he helped himself to your Dad's money, it's become a criminal matter.

I feel for your Dad. He's caught between a rock and a hard place, because he can't afford to take the loss. None of us know what the future will bring for this particular sort of issue; it could happen to any of us.

Surely you should be able to trust your son not to help himself to your money!!!

Regardless of whether the poster's Dad handed his financial affairs over to his Son or not, nobody has the right to take what does not belong to them. He trusted his Son and that trust was betrayed.

The decision to take this matter to the police was not taken lightly, in fact it was the very last thing that the Gentleman wanted to do, but he was left with no choice due to his Son's refusal to discuss the matter.

This was theft, made even worse by the fact that it was perpetrated by a trusted family member.

ladymay

Hi Nana,

I don't really have anything to add, except I'm so sorry you and your dad are going through this. Your brother has not only stolen money, because it represented your father's security and health, and therefore happiness. And because you are helping your father through this, he has stolen that from you as well.

Please try your best to stay strong and healthy, you have the patience of a saint and I hope that whatever happens you and your dad stay strong as a family unit, and that you re-establish contact with your niece and nephews. Like you said, they are probably still trying to get their head around this and feeling unnecessarily guilty, as you were when you found out.

I wish you and your family all the best xxx

rageagainstessays

Just to be a 100% clear, your brother stole £20k.

kelpie35

NANANINANOONOO wrote: »

My dad did not give up responsibility he is an intelligent man with all his facalties bodily and mentally, he merely let my brother put him online banking on his computer because dad was between homes and stayed with his son for a few months and it seemed to make life easier. Dad thought his son only had access to his current account & this was in order to make paying for car any repairs and anything else my brother did for him more instant rather than owing my brother for parts and having to travel or delay paying him especially after dad moved to his new home. That consideration by my father is a joke in itself now!

Because my dad trusted his son (as most people do) that situation just continued. Dad did not check his savings accounts because he did not need to touch them and natrally assumed they were sitting untouched, whereas my brother was systematically syphoning them off to zero.

I have explained I loved and felt close to my brother but for him to have done this to our father through greed and because he found he had access is unfathomable, I cannot see how you can say "I realise it's possible whoever is managing her money might help themselves" as though stealing someones money is acceptable! It is not me or my father who has destroyed a family but my brother, he has shown no remorse and no care for my father whatsoever since this has been uncovered, believe me the betrayal has been more heartbreaking than anything else.

We are talking about a good kind honest hardworking man who has been left pennyless after being robbed of his 50k nestegg at a time when he should be enjoying his good health in his twighlight years, he is now reduced to asking for financial help from others for the first time in his life. I still love my brother and have tried to understand but I have to honour my fathers wishes and support him through this.

Please ignore that comment from from this poster. He obliviously has not read the whole thread :mad:

You are doing a wonderful job in supporting your dad :T

I hope the police can sort this mess out ASAP.

Please take care of yourself under these stressful circumstances.

I hope that your dad can get some comfort really soon too :beer:

ap1986

OP, after reading some of your more recent posts, I really admire your attitude towards your brother at the moment. I'd be very angry with him and his 'he gave it to me' attitude. In fact, I'd be livid and be a lot less calm and reserved than you seem to be. You should be proud of that!

I can't believe that some people on here are trying to excuse his behaviour as the norm if they had access to that amount of someone else's money. It's 100% not the norm to think it's ok to lie and steal from ANYBODY let alone your own Father.

Your dad is doing the right thing in reporting him, it's probably heartbreaking for him but he is doing the right thing. You're doing an amazing job supporting him and helping him getting all the information and evidence he needs.

Keep up the good work and please, never feel like you're in the wrong and your brother is right. I hope you have a good support network around you too as you seem to be doing such a great job for others!

tinkerbell28

He had no choice in going to the police, as he is elderly. If he needs help with top ups, benefits or care, now he's got no money. He would've come unstuck under deprivation of assets. If they towed the line he'd "given it away".

If it changes his life forever and he gets jail, well he shouldn't have taken his dads 50k nest egg.

Also op, they may not be contacting you, as one they're ashamed/loyalty. But this is now a criminal case, so in the event it goes to court, then you're all witnesses, so shouldn't really be in contact anyway. He may have been told this.

I'd stop trying to contact your brothers family and tell your Dad to do the same.

This is the only way he's going to get protection if he needs benefits or stand any chance of getting money back, either from proceeds of crime, or a court order.

If they don't award the full amount in the criminal court, you can go for a civil claim, also it opens up the possibility if the bank were negligent he's got a claim with them.

jonesMUFCforever

IMO opinion you have to sue the brother if you can get sufficient proof - this will cost you more money - does he have any of the funds left to pay you?
The fact that the father has full mental capacity and freely gave him the log in details of his internet banking means any case against the bank will fail.