Brother borrowed 20k without consent

AMILLIONDOLLARS

All very sad, as other have said records should have been kept for 6 years at least.

Keep pushing on.

AMD

Clive_Woody

NANANINANOONOO wrote: »

Bad news...
After writing to dads (major high street) bank with a police crime number they say they cannot confirm exactly what documents were taken into banch or by whom and how or who in branch verified them in 2011 and faxed them though to the shareholders so allowing dads shares to be closed and the monies deposited into my fathers then directly into my brothers account. Apparantly the bank employee who verified them no longer works for the bank and they do not keep any records back to 2011 :0(

To me this sounds a bit odd, I would be tempted to write to the head office of the bank (directly to the CEO) and ask him what their policy is for record keeping. I would point out that this is part of an ongoing police investigation into potential fraud - provide the name and address for the police officer assigned to work on this to show that you are genuine.

That might encourage a little bit of activity from the bank as not keeping records for more than 2 years seems very lax.

ap1986

Could it be that the bank doesn't keep records from before 2011 'to hand'. They may still have it (I think should still have it, surely?!) archived in another system or something?! Maybe the record the employee could see only had information from 2011 onwards and doesn't know/can't access pre 2011?! Just a thought...

I'm sorry that I can't offer any proper advice and I really hope there is some sort of a solution for you all very soon! I'm sure your support to your Dad is very much appreciated but just remember to take five minutes for yourself from time to time. Sending hugs xx

jonesMUFCforever

Clive_Woody wrote: »

To me this sounds a bit odd, I would be tempted to write to the head office of the bank (directly to the CEO) and ask him what their policy is for record keeping. I would point out that this is part of an ongoing police investigation into potential fraud - provide the name and address for the police officer assigned to work on this to show that you are genuine.

That might encourage a little bit of activity from the bank as not keeping records for more than 2 years seems very lax.

Why not ask the stockbrokers then for copies of the documents.
I would not think for one moment that a bank employee will make a note or take copies for themselves of any documents they might have confirmed unless it was for the bank.

bouncydog1

How do the bank know who verified them if they have no records? The records will be somewhere within the bank and this seems like a fob off to me.

I would write to the banks fraud department with the crime number and ask for tge information. Alternatively they can wait for the police to ask for it. In 2011 banks were scanning records so they will have it.

jobbingmusician

Massive hugs to all concerned. I just have one thing to contribute, just in case you haven't thought of it....

When you try ringing your brother, have you thought of putting 141 before his number to suppress your phone number?

(And another vote for going to the ombudsman for the bank's failure to keep their records.)

embob74

I have just read the unfolding story with sadness.
I have no comment on the theft/fraud side but have you checked your father is getting all the benefits he is entitled to? Pension credit should ensure your father has a minimum of £140 a week I believe although that may depend on his partner's income.
Perhaps a quick message on the benefits board could give you some enlightenment on checking his entitlements.

PositiveBalance

Hi Nananinanoonoo,

I know someone who had to access their records many years later and they were told that they were not at hand and that they would have to speak to HQ about it.

They couldn't get hold of them as they had closed the bank account in the end, but if the account is still open, you stand a much better chance. This was for inter-bank transfers, though, so I'm not sure if there might be differences when stocks have been cashed in.

For what it's worth, I would not try to contact your brother under any circumstances. If this goes to court and you have spoken to him, he could try to say that you have been ringing him up and threatening him or anything he likes. I would personally stay well clear, and assume that if he has spoken to his children (who are more likely to have contact with him) assume that he is now aware that you have been collating evidence against him.

Best of luck and sorry you are having to deal with this, but it's nice to think that your dad has one decent child who will be there for him no matter what.

dancingfairy

I thought that the police would also investigate the bank and whether they followed procedures, however having thought about it more I guess they wouldn't necessarily. I can also understand wanting to get answers, to understand how the banks procedures would have let your brother get away with this, and your feeling of wanting to be doing something, anything to try and move forward.
I do agree with the others that banks have to keep their records for at least 6 years though.
Hypothetical question : if you did find that the bank haven't followed procedures properly /kept relevant paperwork, what options do you have to recover the money from them/sue them? Would it go through the police? would you have to sue the bank? or would it be a complaint via the ombudsman?
Obviously on one hand I would like to think that the bank followed all their procedures but your brother forged/faked documents in order to carry out this scam but obviously if there is some way that you can recover some/ all of this money for you father then you should.
Also, whilst I totally understand wanting to get to the bottom of all this and get it investigated you may never get all the answers you need (especially from your brother) and it may involve a long road ahead.
Please make sure you look after yourself and your father during this very difficult time.
df
Edit: have you thought about doing a SAR (subject access request) to the bank. It costs 10 pounds I believe and the bank are supposed to supply every scrap of information they have on your father (although I don't know whether they can withold some on the grounds of a suspected fraud/live police investigation taking place) but it 's worth a shot anyway.
There's a thread here: https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/1475553 with a SAR letter at the begining. You might want to amend it to ask for only certain years (as I guess you don't need 50 years worth of bank records - or whatever they have left).

JuicyJesus

bouncydog1 wrote: »

How do the bank know who verified them if they have no records? The records will be somewhere within the bank and this seems like a fob off to me.

They don't. Because no bank that verifies documents logs that they have verified them, for the reasons stated up-thread.

Also a lot of people keep saying it's a regulatory requirement for banks to keep all records for 6 years, even though that isn't the case. To reiterate: they are required to keep ID and transactional info for six years for money laundering purposes, and everything else for a reasonable length of time which is entirely at their sole discretion. So to say to put the screws on the bank for not keeping documents they never had for a period of time they don't have to keep them is poor advice.