What is the most the poorest student pays in fees and the minimum grant + bursary?

lazer

The student loan system isn't really a loan - its a graduate tax - in theory it can be paid off in 35 years, but what would you have to earn for that to happen

I graduated in 2004 owing £12k and still owe around £8k (which doesn't get written off until I hit retirement age!). If no interest and no change in pay it will take me 5 more years to pay this off, but I probably won't get it all paid off, as I'm 30 now and want children and will take maternity leave, maybe go part time after - who knows what the future holds.

The system does not stop people going to university - it has no upfront costs nowadays - so the important thing is to make sure everyone can afford to go - to do this we need to make sure the loans can adequately cover living costs.

TBH - I would be in favour of a system where each university submitted the average cost of accommodation for students and then a living expenses amount is added to this and that is the amount given to the students.

The accommodation costs do change around the country and considering how low the loans are tit can make a massive difference.

From memory I think I got around £3,500 of a maintenance loan a year my rent in mt 2nd year was £1,860 and in my 3rd was £2,100 - so looking back it didn't lave much but I worked every saturday and got £22 - which was my entertainment fund for the week - and I worked over the holidays.

Poppy9

silvercar wrote: »

I know that Birmingham University and Bristol University both offer accommodation at that sort of price, but they also offer accommodation that is a lot cheaper than that. I know Bristol University accommodation allocation procedures ask you the price range you are looking for, so if your accommodation of choice is unavailable they will allocate you something in a similar price range.

DD off to one of those uni's. Her accommodation is £115 a week for a single room, no basin, shared kitchen and bathroom. No living room but there is a common room for 200+ Her email allocating accommodation was obviously a template as it apologised if it had offered accommodation substantially over budget but the cheaper accommodation was over subscribed. Students choice was to accept the accommodation and go on transfer list or arrange their own accommodation. They only found out this week their allocation so time is very short if you want to go private.

DD has had her tuition fee loan - she's Welsh, so Welsh Govt. subsidise fees down to just under £4k per year.

Aside from that she has a total of just under £6k from Student loans/maintenance grant to fund her accommodation - £4600, plus £200 returnable deposit, plus £50 hall fees so she has to live off less than £1000 for 10 months - I think I worked it to £23.25 per week. Obviously she could never buy her books, feed herself, buy toiletries, socialise, pop home etc. on this. Plus she has to pay £3 per load to do her laundry.

She has secured a p/t job that will give her and extra £120 per month.

IMO she will still struggle to live off £50 per week so we are topping her up.

She isn't entitled to any other bursaries or tuiton fee waivers as she is Welsh!

TurnUpForTheBooks_2

I agree with much that you say, lazer except that the system for starters 2012 onward is an order of magnitude bigger than your older type student loanby virtue of
(a) the much bigger tuition fee loan for the unfettered 2012 onward tuition fees (well at least the release of the earlier years fetter which let the horse bolt into the outer field where it is now having a proper field day!)
(b) the ever growing maintenance fee loans to cover the burgeoning incidence of abdicating "university halls" accommodation to privateer control viz 8.5% student rent increases reported by MSE.
(c) the completely different interest rate calculation that applies to (a) and (b) which has to be compared by compound scenarios not by simple maths in order to be properly understood in outcome magnitude terms, especially if we inadvertently suffer any period of serious inflation in western economies.

Yes I know it is still valid to call it a graduate tax but that makes it worse because there are absolutely no guarantees about the future magnitude of that tax burden on graduates. Unlike a worsening RPI +3% interest rate, which would be directly linked to RPI as a measure of inflation, the tax can be modified to suit the politics of the government of the day at any time over the next 30 years.

Your point about accommodation costs being a critical element outside a student's control beyond slumming it to the maxium level possible in the locality is well made.

To show how daft it is, I was just this afternoon shown an example of a fee waiver/scholarship where the grant element was £3000 (can be counted on top of the non-repayable maximum SFE grant of the maximum £3,354.)

What was daft? This student will not be living in a city! Others that do are simply guaranteed they can borrow more. Giving grants is help. Giving a bigger guaranteed loan is like the kind of help you need like a hole in the head. If that bigger loan came at a differential 0% interest it would at least be an acknowledgement of the accommodation cost variations around the country.

What we've got is a wholly wrong and unfair general distribution of a national higher education budget and its unwelcome upshot is dropping on to doormats (or not) right now.


Sorry to here about your DDs potential struggle Poppy9. Another real story for naysayers to consider before bedtime. We in England are sometimes incorrectly tempted to consider that Welsh students might be well supported in some ways similar to Scottish students will be - at least until those rocks Alex Sammond uses as a barometer or benchmark of their national moral terpitude "melt in the sun"! No bursarys or scholarships ? So no safety valve at all ?

TurnUpForTheBooks_2

Please stop..

Sorry Emma but can't do that right now with my mindset and what I see happening around the world.

Yes these struggles are part and parcel of student life in England but they simply will not do for the second millennium in a developed country with pretensions of still being a world leader.

Meantime sincerest good luck to you and yours.

If it doesn't kill you it makes you stronger is one way to look at this but there are limits and the red lines were overstepped by UK government at the last major review if not before.

Poppy9

EmmaBridgewater wrote: »

Please stop..

I have just finished uni (first). I was lucky to get a grant in my second year (dad owns business and wasn't as good a year). First and third years there was nothing.. First year just covered rent (103/w - now 110), third didn't cover rent at all. I have worked summers and saved enough to get by.

Brother moves to uni soon, he has saved about 4k this summer alone from working 7-11. His loan just about covers his rent (113/w) but anything above this he will buy, no bursaries, no grants.

Cousin also starts this month, same with her.

Students aren't meant to be living in luxury, the place I lived in n second year was terrible - broken toilet, carbon monoxide scare, broken drains. It is all part and parcel of student life :rotfl:

Edit: cousins is 114/w. all self catered, en suite. Two south, one south west.

DD intention was to work all summer. She has a job with a major retailer and it started well with full time work for a couple of weeks after A levels finished. Then it became cancelled shifts, then no shifts allocated as manager off. She was extremely frustrated and constantly asking for more hours.

She has secured a transfer to a Branch local to her uni and they were begging her to work until she started uni. She would love to but 4 hours travelling each day is a bit much.

Locally there are no other jobs. I previously posted about how many jobs she applied for and how many CVs she gave out before getting a job. Many of her friends are 18and have never managed to get a job because for p/t work now they are competing against non students who are not so restricted in hours.

The point is though that there are students who now cannot afford Uni, even if they are bright and are of the calibre that should be going to uni. Loans that don't cover accommodation, books & food is disgraceful. Depending on the subject you are doing some text books are £50 each.

I agree students expect to be poor but they shouldn't be living in hovels in poverty as it's unhealthy students won't perform well.

I think what would be interesting is for Uni's to show how much profit/loss they make on halls of residents to see if students are being over charged or subsidised.

Dunroamin

Poppy9 wrote: »

DD intention was to work all summer. She has a job with a major retailer and it started well with full time work for a couple of weeks after A levels finished. Then it became cancelled shifts, then no shifts allocated as manager off. She was extremely frustrated and constantly asking for more hours.

She has secured a transfer to a Branch local to her uni and they were begging her to work until she started uni. She would love to but 4 hours travelling each day is a bit much.

Locally there are no other jobs. I previously posted about how many jobs she applied for and how many CVs she gave out before getting a job. Many of her friends are 18and have never managed to get a job because for p/t work now they are competing against non students who are not so restricted in hours.

The point is though that there are students who now cannot afford Uni, even if they are bright and are of the calibre that should be going to uni. Loans that don't cover accommodation, books & food is disgraceful. Depending on the subject you are doing some text books are £50 each.

I agree students expect to be poor but they shouldn't be living in hovels in poverty as it's unhealthy students won't perform well.

I think what would be interesting is for Uni's to show how much profit/loss they make on halls of residents to see if students are being over charged or subsidised.

Very few students will be buying text books costing £50 and many of them will hardly buy any books at all. Parents whose income is high enough to stop them from being eligible for a grant are expected to top up the loan and this is what the majority of parents do.

Poppy9

Dunroamin wrote: »

Very few students will be buying text books costing £50 and many of them will hardly buy any books at all. Parents whose income is high enough to stop them from being eligible for a grant are expected to top up the loan and this is what the majority of parents do.

Lots of DD friends doing science subject are forking out that money for a book as they Uni has sent them their requirements and they are trying to buy second hand. We are eagerly awaiting DD reading list!!

The system only works if a parent can afford to top up and many parents simply can't. I was surprised at how many of DD former classmates are staying home to go to uni because they say they simply cannot afford to move away. This then limits their course choice.

TurnUpForTheBooks_2

Dunroamin wrote: »

Very few students will be buying text books costing £50 and many of them will hardly buy any books at all. Parents whose income is high enough to stop them from being eligible for a grant are expected to top up the loan and this is what the majority of parents do.

I don't get your drift sometimes, Dunroamin. One the one hand you can't abide anyone daring to aspire to university unless they commit to serious subjects which might not include sociology or media studies I guess, and then on the other hand you don't seem to have a clue how much the books required for some of the serious subjects you would acknowledge as such actually cost. One of the student examples I have alluded to (the one with the least bursary/grant) will have to buy no less than 3 books with an Amazon price of not less than forty something quid each before this Christmas, let alone next year.

flea72

Poppy9 wrote: »

Lots of DD friends doing science subject are forking out that money for a book as they Uni has sent them their requirements and they are trying to buy second hand. We are eagerly awaiting DD reading list!!

The system only works if a parent can afford to top up and many parents simply can't. I was surprised at how many of DD former classmates are staying home to go to uni because they say they simply cannot afford to move away. This then limits their course choice.

If the book is on the reading list, then the uni will have copies. By being organised you can borrow them indefinitely from the library, ie book a copy out on arrival and then check the reservations lists regularly to see if other students have placed holds, if not just keep renewing. Also most core text are available online or there is at least one reference only copy in the library

If you find you use a book regularly, then maybe think about buying a copy, but dont rush out and buy whats on the list. Also alot of books are available free to download, (if you google long enough lol)

flea72

TurnUpForTheBooks wrote: »

I don't get your drift sometimes, Dunroamin. One the one hand you can't abide anyone daring to aspire to university unless they commit to serious subjects which might not include sociology or media studies I guess, and then on the other hand you don't seem to have a clue how much the books required for some of the serious subjects you would acknowledge as such actually cost. One of the student examples I have alluded to (the one with the least bursary/grant) will have to buy no less than 3 books with an Amazon price of not less than forty something quid each before this Christmas, let alone next year.

If id bought the books on my reading list it would cost me about £1k, for the first year alone. as it is, i have prob spent about £50 at most, by only buying books that ive borrowed from the library and have found useful.

Also learn to shop savvy. Ie, If you want to buy new, open lloyds student account, get free nus extra card, use 5% discount on amazon. Use megashopbot To compare book prices. I bought alot of my books from usa, as even including postage, it was way cheaper than uk prices. Get on forums and tap 2nd and 3rd students for their old books, or ask your tutors as some ex-students donate their books to the uni