Warning! Economy 7

lstar337

Archbishop wrote: »

Hi Cardew, I'm also thinking further about this, all the meter manufacturers must take their lead from all utility companies for their meter specifications and timings. I do not think it beyond the realms of possibility or conspiracy theory they would all think it a grand idea for upping the profits to slip in a couple of hours high rate while most people are asleep to notice?

Nope, they have nothing to do with it. Timings are set by the Distribution Network Operator which worrks independantly of suppliers.

There is no conspiracy here.:p

Cardew

Archbishop wrote: »

Hi Cardew, I'm also thinking further about this, all the meter manufacturers must take their lead from all utility companies for their meter specifications and timings. I do not think it beyond the realms of possibility or conspiracy theory they would all think it a grand idea for upping the profits to slip in a couple of hours high rate while most people are asleep to notice?

Hi,
All the time on MSE we get suggestions of criminal conspiracy by the Utility Companies on various matters.

Just think about it for a moment.

Firstly to do as you suggest would be a very serious criminal conspiracy and would undoubtedly attract a custodial sentence if discovered - not to mention a eye-watering fine of many £millions.

So someone high up in the management would have to initiate the 'scam' and issue instructions to call centre staff. Do you think many staff members would be party to such a conspiracy? and what would be in it for them, a bonus for criminal behaviour?

Also with a high turnover of staff, it is a certainty that a 'whistle blower' would appear.

Also as stated earlier, your 2 hour problem was initially nothing to do with EDF; and any one of the Utility companies could have been supplying you, and also been unaware the problem existed.

Indeed how many people on MSE who take an interest in these matters were aware that houses were wired such that the 7 hours on an Economy 7 tariff was not a continuous 7 hours.

Also, on most houses with Economy 7, the storage heaters and main immersion heater are on a separate electrical circuit so receive no power when meter switches from off-peak. So your losses caused by storage heaters running on peak electricity simply wouldn't have occurred.

You obviously had grounds for complaint that EDF didn't initially take you seriously. However that is a world away from a criminal conspiracy.

Archbishop

Cardew wrote: »

Hi,
All the time on MSE we get suggestions of criminal conspiracy by the Utility Companies on various matters.

Just think about it for a moment.

Firstly to do as you suggest would be a very serious criminal conspiracy and would undoubtedly attract a custodial sentence if discovered - not to mention a eye-watering fine of many £millions.

So someone high up in the management would have to initiate the 'scam' and issue instructions to call centre staff. Do you think many staff members would be party to such a conspiracy? and what would be in it for them, a bonus for criminal behaviour?

Also with a high turnover of staff, it is a certainty that a 'whistle blower' would appear.

Also as stated earlier, your 2 hour problem was initially nothing to do with EDF; and any one of the Utility companies could have been supplying you, and also been unaware the problem existed.

Indeed how many people on MSE who take an interest in these matters were aware that houses were wired such that the 7 hours on an Economy 7 tariff was not a continuous 7 hours.

Also, on most houses with Economy 7, the storage heaters and main immersion heater are on a separate electrical circuit so receive no power when meter switches from off-peak. So your losses caused by storage heaters running on peak electricity simply wouldn't have occurred.

You obviously had grounds for complaint that EDF didn't initially take you seriously. However that is a world away from a criminal conspiracy.

Your points taken Cardew, and thanks for taking the time to explain. So we have a situation that the supplier is unaware of when the switching takes place...it is all down to the Distribution Network Operator as Istar was kind enough to point out. So at this moment in time we have lord knows how many customers out there blissfully unaware if their eco 7 low rate is switching to the high rate for periods determined by the Distribution Network Operator. If its the eco 7 heating then there is no problem, as you say it adjusts automatically. But for people like myself, putting my major appliances on timers, had it not been for noticing it on high when it should have been on low I would never have been any the wiser till this day. It really does not sit right, I feel affected customers should be advised by their supplier of this situation if it applies.

joncombe

Archbishop wrote: »

Your points taken Cardew, and thanks for taking the time to explain. So we have a situation that the supplier is unaware of when the switching takes place...it is all down to the Distribution Network Operator as Istar was kind enough to point out. So at this moment in time we have lord knows how many customers out there blissfully unaware if their eco 7 low rate is switching to the high rate for periods determined by the Distribution Network Operator. If its the eco 7 heating then there is no problem, as you say it adjusts automatically. But for people like myself, putting my major appliances on timers, had it not been for noticing it on high when it should have been on low I would never have been any the wiser till this day. It really does not sit right, I feel affected customers should be advised by their supplier of this situation if it applies.

I agree. I think that Economy 7 hours should be stated when signing up with an energy supplier in the contract. I also think they should be printed clearly on each bill for any customer on an Economy 7 tariff.

If the energy suppliers don't have the information on when the times are in different areas then they need to resolve that with the distributors. In fact in the interests of simplification I think it would make sense if the Economy 7 hours were the same all over the country to avoid this kind of problem.

wkdboi

After reading this thread I just checked my Eco 7 meter and at 00;50 The clock said 23:50 which means it switches at 1am for me I guess through to 8am will have to monitor and work out the times myself

Just found this map on Npower site, as as I live in the South West its not great news

"All meters have different settings" which means no one knows

https://customerservices.npower.com/app/answers/detail/a_id/179/~/what-are-the-economy-7-peak-and-off-peak-periods%3F

lstar337

joncombe wrote: »

In fact in the interests of simplification I think it would make sense if the Economy 7 hours were the same all over the country to avoid this kind of problem.

What about load balancing and distribution?

What do you think would happen to the grid if millions of 3.4kW storage heaters all switched on at the same millisecond?

Some of the times are offset on purpose (load balancing), and some are offset by accident (drifting equipment and such).

Our work time clock says it is currently 20:00 (It's 9:30), it will switch to low rate at 00:00 (13:30). So our current E7 times are 13:30 - 20:30.

We informed the supplier (EDF) when we moved to our current building, they said it was down to our DNO (Western Power Distribution) to decide what times the E7 hours are. We informed our DNO, they said it was a waste of their time to change it, and it would simply drift out again.

This all took place about 7 years ago.

molerat

wkdboi wrote: »

After reading this thread I just checked my Eco 7 meter and at 00;50 The clock said 23:50 which means it switches at 1am for me I guess through to 8am will have to monitor and work out the times myself

Just found this map on Npower site, as as I live in the South West its not great news

"All meters have different settings" which means no one knows

https://customerservices.npower.com/app/answers/detail/a_id/179/~/what-are-the-economy-7-peak-and-off-peak-periods%3F

So your clock runs on GMT, common with mechanical clocks. At least it is telling the correct (GMT) time.

wkdboi

molerat wrote: »

So your clock runs on GMT, common with mechanical clocks. At least it is telling the correct (GMT) time.

Its a Digital meter not mechanical

Archbishop

wkdboi wrote: »

After reading this thread I just checked my Eco 7 meter and at 00;50 The clock said 23:50 which means it switches at 1am for me I guess through to 8am will have to monitor and work out the times myself

Just found this map on Npower site, as as I live in the South West its not great news

"All meters have different settings" which means no one knows

https://customerservices.npower.com/app/answers/detail/a_id/179/~/what-are-the-economy-7-peak-and-off-peak-periods%3F

If the switching times are 9 hours apart you can be sure there will be a 2 hour slot within that you will be paying for at peak rate.

Archbishop

lstar337 wrote: »

What about load balancing and distribution?

What do you think would happen to the grid if millions of 3.4kW storage heaters all switched on at the same millisecond?

Some of the times are offset on purpose (load balancing), and some are offset by accident (drifting equipment and such).

Our work time clock says it is currently 20:00 (It's 9:30), it will switch to low rate at 00:00 (13:30). So our current E7 times are 13:30 - 20:30.

We informed the supplier (EDF) when we moved to our current building, they said it was down to our DNO (Western Power Distribution) to decide what times the E7 hours are. We informed our DNO, they said it was a waste of their time to change it, and it would simply drift out again.

This all took place about 7 years ago.

This makes complete sense; offsetting the start and finish times to spread the loading of the grid. But why, mainly in the south East is there a 2 hour slot at peak rate slipped in the middle? I personally can see no other reason than to increase revenue? covertly?