Warning! Economy 7

lstar337

Archbishop wrote: »

If in the beginning EDF had advised what these switching times were; then there would never have been a problem....

How do you expect EDF to know?

Archbishop wrote: »

But they did not advise of this, up until a few months before they settled they were still telling me low rate was continuous for 7 hours between 0030 and 0730.

If they told you it was continuous, and gave you times, then this was their error. I don't know why they would give you times when they simply don't know what they are. Unless they said "the times are usually/likely to be 00:30 - 07:30.

Archbishop wrote: »

and you will not know its happening unless you stay up all night with and eye on your meter or do as I did and leave a video camera on it to find exactly when the switching times are.

I would have heard it switch at 23:29 and back at 08:39 and known something was up, but then I monitored our meter closely when I moved in as I wanted to be sure of the switching times. I noticed the BST switch shifted the times by an hour on the same day it happened, but I know I am not a typical user.

I understand your frustration, but you should be happy with the compensation you got.

Archbishop

Reading elsewhere here that a mechanical clock has four arms-mine is defo not mechanical...it has 2 sets of numbers and 3 red LED's. It is labeled as "Sangamo SPA 02 single phase watthour meter" I am now wondering, is this a "teleswitch" device? How is it controlled? If controlled remotely by the supplier then the two hour window of full rate might be changed daily anywhere within the nine hour slot...it might make it pot luck whether the washing machine 2 hour cycle is on low or high rate? It's becoming a right can of worms!

Cardew wrote: »

Welcome to the forum. Thanks for the warning.

Do you have a mechanical clock or teleswitch?

I am not sure why you think EDF are the 'crooks' in this situation. Exactly the same would have happened if BG or any other Utility company had been supplying you; in fact I don't see how they would know.

The 'old' regional supplier will set the times. By the way are you now back to a continuous 7 hours?

P.S.
Do you live in Scotland by any chance? They historically had loads of strange economy tariffs.

Wywth

Archbishop wrote: »

I had a new meter fitted by EDF in 2005 to convert to economy 7.

I seemed to be paying more, despite having the high usage appliances timed for during the night-after being assured by EDF everything was on cheap rate between 0030-0730 hours I put it down to the price increases.

In 2011 I was fitting an "OWL" electricity monitor at 0230 hrs in the morning and noticed the meter was charging on the high day rate. :question::doh:

Further lengthy investigation using a CCTV camera on the meter revealed that the cheap night rate switched at 2329 hrs and finished at 0829 hrs (9 hours). BUT! at 0129 hrs it switched back to the higher day tariff and reverted again to low tariff at 0329 hrs. Crafty !!!!!!s thought I-what a way to be charging full rate for 2 hours every night :wall::eek::mad::mad::mad:

Adjusting my appliance use to avoid this 2 hour window of the higher charge brought my bills back to expected figures.

There then followed a lengthy correspondence with EDF where they first claimed my meter was faulty and needed to be changed, I was offered £50 in compensation. Then they told me the meter was fine, I was still getting 7 hours of cheap electric but admitted 2 hours was at the higher rate.

It took a referral to the Ombudsman to get a realistic compensation...in July 2012 they paid me £524.62p.:j Shortly after this I converted to Co-op energy. :T

What a bunch of crooks-obviously not expecting anyone to sit up all night waiting to see when the meter switches-I certainly would have been none the wiser if I had not used one of my house CCTV cameras, even then it took many hours to get the full story...if you have economy 7 it might be an idea to check this out too!:beer:

New poster. Warnings. Allegations of Crafty crooks.

And then a suggestion the ombudsman gave you compo for clearly no vaild reason

Hmmm....:cool:
(A perfect example of not to believe everything you read on t'internet)

The supplier doesn't even set the timings.

Archbishop

You are a regular poster here with many thanks registered. A respected pillar of this community it would appear?
So your aggression to put me down comes as a bit of a surprise.
PM me an email that accepts attachments and I can send you details of the entire correspondence between 2011 and 2012 plus copy's of the cheques from EDF energy (not from the ombudsman) in compensation ...there are no fairy tales here please be assured, everything is pure fact with written, video and photographic evidence.

Wywth wrote: »

New poster. Warnings. Allegations of Crafty crooks.

And then a suggestion the ombudsman gave you compo for clearly no vaild reason

Hmmm....:cool:
(A perfect example of not to believe everything you read on t'internet)

The supplier doesn't even set the timings.

[Deleted User]

OP..Buzby has given the correct answer to your problem I think. Eco 7 meters are a constant problem. most analogue timers have drifted out of time over the years ( I am not sure why , poss power cuts ) Radio Teleswitch controlled meters have a big black box next to the meter, and the digital ones ( eg Ampy ) have built in electronic timers. I have been checking these lately and quite a few are drifting up to an hour or more from the GMT they started out at, so its a good idea to work out when each meter decides when the cheap rate starts. I spend a lot of time every day telling most eco 7 people to get billed single rate as they are on very little night useage which I can see by their readings. They mostly all now have gas central heating and dont require eco 7

Richie-from-the-Boro

The Sangamo 2 is an age old clanky [neoprene cogs spin a one arm bandit type set of wheels] roll-digit 2 x 5 + 2 10/ths. To my knowledge these are mechanical only, were never telswitched and were largely replaced by AMPY and the like digital types 20 to 30 years ago. I can only assume a meter reader [swap-out] has never been near this for two or more decades, a supplier of course would not have a clue what meter it was, but would merely accept the day & night readings supplied.

Why any UK energy supplier would be using a device that ceased manufacture in '75 to '82 [fitted by EDF in 2005] I've no idea. Their modern electronic [again non teleswitched] ceased manufacture in 2002 ish. These meters are widely collected by nerds and anoraks the world over.

spiro

The SPA02 has a recertification period of 10 years. Check the meter and see if there is a card attached saying when it was installed (not made). If it is more than 10 years ago or you have lived there long enough to know its been there for more than 10 years phone up your supplier and say its overdue a recertification. Even if you dont know the date you can always phone your supplier and ask when the meter was installed, again if that was more than 10 years ago chase them to get it changed.

Wywth

Archbishop wrote: »

You are a regular poster here with many thanks registered. A respected pillar of this community it would appear?
So your aggression to put me down comes as a bit of a surprise.
PM me an email that accepts attachments and I can send you details of the entire correspondence between 2011 and 2012 plus copy's of the cheques from EDF energy (not from the ombudsman) in compensation ...there are no fairy tales here please be assured, everything is pure fact with written, video and photographic evidence.

Sounds like you're not exactly new here either

That being the case, you would know I prefer to keep things in the open, so post whatever you want to send me here on the boards for everyone to see

Archbishop

Thanks for your info. We have lived here in Kent, same house for 36 years-you should have seen the old meter it replaced! This has given me some peace of mind that switching times cannot be remotely changed by the supplier. Perhaps also judging by other comments EDF "might" have been unaware of the timings of this...but as suppliers they jolly well should have been! Two separate EDF advisers gave the same answers In 2009, that I would be charged the low rate either 0130-0830 or 0030-0730, one had to assume continuously for each 7 hour cycle and I set my timers up accordingly.

That I found in 2011 after videoing the meter 24/7 the times started an hour before and an hour after those quoted by EDF. It was small consolation after years of paying top tariff for the two hours slipped in, to me seeming "covertly" after these incorrect advice's had been given.

From: XXXX [mailto:enquiries@edfenergy.com]
Sent: 21 July 2009 18:43
To: XXXX
Subject: Re: Myaccount Contact Us

Hi Mr XXXX

As far as ive been advised the summer time is on 1.30 to 8.30 then changes automatically when winter kicks in to 12.30 til 7.30.

hope this helps

EDF

--- Original Message ---
From: "Andy" <XXXX>
Received: 07/16/2009 06:42pm GMT Standard Time (GMT + 1:00 )
To:
Subject: RE: Myaccount Contact Us

Does this change automatically when the clocks go back or forwards or do I have to take away or add an hour when they do...we are in BST at the moment...what will the times be on change to winter time...(I always find this very confusing! "simple speak" be appreciated)

---

Original Message

---

From: XXXX [mailto:enquiries@edfenergy.com]
Sent: 16 July 2009 17:39
To: XXXX
Subject: Re: Myaccount Contact Us <<XXXX>>

Dear Mr XXXX,

Re: Electricity Account Number XXXX

Thank you for your e-mail dated 14 July 2009.

After checking your account it seems that your low rate electricity applies between 00.30 and 07.30 each night. During this period all electricity you use would be charged at 4.64p per KWh. However during all other hours you would be allocated 1000 KWh per annum at 19.33p and any additional KWh would be charged at 11.85p.

If you have any further queries please do not hesitate to contact us.


Kind regards
EDF Energy

So after a very robust exchange over many months, I shall not bore you with the detail, I was first offered compensation of £20 and then £50 both of which I refused. Yes I accept EDF might not have known of this meter peculiarity, but that is their problem, not mine. But having said this Meter manufacturers must build to a specification as laid down by the suppliers...that EDF claimed not to be aware of this I find doubtful, and having told a downright lie-to then try and maintain it till their colours were nailed to the mast with indisputable proof and a determined dog with a bone....well this to me is utility industry at its worst...a sad sign of our times.



Worn down I succumbed to the following; It did not include VAT elements but my point of principle was proven.

From: xxxxxxxx@edfenergy.com]
Sent: 09 July 2012 10:09
To: xxxx
Subject: RE: Sharp Practice

Dear xxxxx

Thank you for your e-mail dated 29 June 2012.

Please firstly let me assure you that although EDF Energy advisors have misinformed you over the timings of your Economy 7 rates, we have not done this intentionally. As previously explained the Economy 7 timings are set by your Meter Operator and not EDF Energy.

I have calculated based on readings from your night rate that your average night time consumption is 6.37 units so 2 hours of night time usage would be 1.83 units per night. Between 18.04.2005 when the meter was installed and 22.05.2012 when we last got a meter reading there are 2591 days. Over this period 1.83 units per night would equate to 4742 units of night time electricity which we charged at the day rate. This works out at £673.83 but if we charged these units at the night rate it would be £244.21.

Due to you being misinformed by our representatives I am willing to credit you the difference which would total £429.62.

Please advise whether you find this acceptable and if so I will send a cheque for the credit and close your complaint.

Kind regards

xxxxxxxx
Team Manager
EDF Energy
Doxford

Richie-from-the-Boro wrote: »

The Sangamo 2 is an age old clanky [neoprene cogs spin a one arm bandit type set of wheels] roll-digit 2 x 5 + 2 10/ths. To my knowledge these are mechanical only, were never telswitched and were largely replaced by AMPY and the like digital types 20 to 30 years ago. I can only assume a meter reader [swap-out] has never been near this for two or more decades, a supplier of course would not have a clue what meter it was, but would merely accept the day & night readings supplied.

Why any UK energy supplier would be using a device that ceased manufacture in '75 to '82 [fitted by EDF in 2005] I've no idea. Their modern electronic [again non teleswitched] ceased manufacture in 2002 ish. These meters are widely collected by nerds and anoraks the world over.

Archbishop

Wywth wrote: »

Sounds like you're not exactly new here either

That being the case, you would know I prefer to keep things in the open, so post whatever you want to send me here on the boards for everyone to see

I am totally 100% new to this forum, although not to the forum world in general....each of which all have their self appointed nit pickers and bully boys who get their rocks off telling people how inadequate they are...which brings a degree of enjoyment to an audience if a flame looks likely....unfortunately in the absence of your apology this one ends here!