Mr and Mrs K's New Journey to a Debt Free Life.

AlexLK

Well, having watched the documentary I have to say my suspicions are confirmed; one cannot learn to play an instrument in the way Mr. "Cool" was trying to "teach". I'm sure his heart is in the right place but the man needs to have a shave, get changed into something more suitable and realise not every child wants to play an instrument, let alone have the tenacity to become remotely successful.

To learn a musical instrument to any sort of standard requires many, many hours of hard work and specialist tuition. Telling children to practise is all well and good but I doubt very much they knew what or how to practise. Those with enthusiasm will soon grow bored when there's no improvement in their playing, something that will be nigh on impossible to achieve without lessons in technique.

Learning to appreciate different genres of music, supported by singing and basic theory before choosing children based on both ability and enthusiasm to play an instrument would have been a better approach. Everyone would be included by learning to appreciate music and the resultant school ensemble would be of a much higher standard allowing the general public to perhaps take Music within the school curriculum a little more seriously.

heartbreak_star

I agree with some of what you said, but in school I'd have been more inclined to listen to him than (as I would have put it at the time) "some posh stiff neck in an overpriced suit"!

Do agree that children should be taught to appreciate all genres of music - I love everything from classical through rock to improv doom jazz - but disagree that you need everyone to be at a super-duper standard and having specialist tuition...playing at a casual level has always been enough for me and our school band was pretty good I would think those with talent and drive would probably show themselves as time goes on?

Generally practising is a self-motivated thing, if I was him I would assign tasks to be completed before the next lesson (I give workouts to the cheerleaders).


Also, I noted another dig at state schools Regarding taking music and the arts in general seriously...some families really can't afford to. Sad, but there you go. They have to encourage kids to take subjects that have a better chance of leading to well-paying work. The one person I know with a masters in Classics is a teaching assistant, and the one with a first in Music has worked in a petrol station for ten years.

I love music, dance and creative subjects in general - it's just harder to get work in those areas than it is in such things as admin and the like.

HBS x

gallygirl

AlexLK wrote: »

To learn a musical instrument to any sort of standard requires many, many hours of hard work and specialist tuition. Telling children to practise is all well and good but I doubt very much they knew what or how to practise. Those with enthusiasm will soon grow bored when there's no improvement in their playing, something that will be nigh on impossible to achieve without lessons in technique.

Learning to appreciate different genres of music, supported by singing and basic theory before choosing children based on both ability and enthusiasm to play an instrument would have been a better approach. Everyone would be included by learning to appreciate music and the resultant school ensemble would be of a much higher standard allowing the general public to perhaps take Music within the school curriculum a little more seriously.

Sounds eminently sensible to me Alex (not something I ever thought I'd say on your thread :rotfl:) :T. I struggle to pick out different instruments when I listen to an orchestra (and think I'm a bit old for Peter & The Wolf ). I really wish they'd taught us ABOUT music rather than stuck a bl**dy recorder in our hands .

maman

AlexLK wrote: »

Learning to appreciate different genres of music, supported by singing and basic theory before choosing children based on both ability and enthusiasm to play an instrument would have been a better approach. Everyone would be included by learning to appreciate music and the resultant school ensemble would be of a much higher standard allowing the general public to perhaps take Music within the school curriculum a little more seriously.

Which is precisely where the vast majority of state primary schools are with their music curriculum (with maybe a little percussion thrown in) and I'm happy with that. Beyond that some schools (generally where parents have the ability to pay) do offer instruments, some with interested staff offer the ocarina (;)) or recorder and then most families go down the private route.


I really can't see how it can be afforded, in terms of finance or time in taking children out of other lessons for individual instrument provision, at primary level. Maybe different when pupils have chosen specialist music at a later stage but even then I'm not sure.

NoOneAround

fc123 wrote: »

Stumbled across your thread and read it all start to finish just now (so quoted from the old one here).

Anyone you would call a friend wouldn't sneer at downgrading a car...and if they do you were hanging out with the wrong crowd. Kinda makes you want to buy an old Skoda just to test the theory ........as a bonus I have heard they are very reliable car.

So glad your wife is on board with the diary as well........and you sound so much more positive in just 24 hours.

I haven't much time tonight but have subscribed so will return with some tips that may be of use as we got rid of 160k of debt (I know ) and I did full and finals on cards, got interest frozen and payment plans set up (whilst we saved as much as we could to F+F).
I have just helped my brother sort out 30k of card debt with 0% int and F+F on 1 so far........and he earnt tons for years ~(6 figs) and had never had to cut back at all in his life ....sadly his divorce cost him dear. He is 45.


Just to say, ideas on turning the interest into a profitable biz sound a good way forward as is some of your time being at home with your son so he may only have to do PT nursery....as you could then do some work in the evening instead if selling online. This means your wife can work FT and not worry about childcare as Dad is there.

Just put that in as ours are big now but we have always had our own business so we both did childcare and for Dad to be involved with all the everyday things is a privilege....you may have the flexibility to earn and look after him PT.


sorry....long post but the thing that happens is paying down the debt seems like it's taking forever...and the cutting back and so on but one day, it's gone.
....and then the savings seem to happen by magic as there is surplus. You will be amazed at how quickly they mount up once the debts are no more.

Keep the house as you debt is very do-able.:)

Just found this thread by accident

---

this sound s so familiar -£160K debt sorted - Wow ...my hopes have been boosted by the this forum over the last week and just spiked big time


....will be back to read more as promised myself would not log in till lunch time
will look up these threads with even more hope.....

AlexLK

heartbreak_star wrote: »

I agree with some of what you said, but in school I'd have been more inclined to listen to him than (as I would have put it at the time) "some posh stiff neck in an overpriced suit"!

Do agree that children should be taught to appreciate all genres of music - I love everything from classical through rock to improv doom jazz - but disagree that you need everyone to be at a super-duper standard and having specialist tuition...playing at a casual level has always been enough for me and our school band was pretty good I would think those with talent and drive would probably show themselves as time goes on?

Generally practising is a self-motivated thing, if I was him I would assign tasks to be completed before the next lesson (I give workouts to the cheerleaders).

Also, I noted another dig at state schools Regarding taking music and the arts in general seriously...some families really can't afford to. Sad, but there you go. They have to encourage kids to take subjects that have a better chance of leading to well-paying work. The one person I know with a masters in Classics is a teaching assistant, and the one with a first in Music has worked in a petrol station for ten years.

I love music, dance and creative subjects in general - it's just harder to get work in those areas than it is in such things as admin and the like.

HBS x

Unfortunately, I think his appearance (including attire) created the wrong impression, one that told the world Music is not to be viewed as a "serious" subject. I had not said he should be dressed in business attire, you did. Less enlightened parents also saw a lack of discipline in the classroom whilst Mr. "Cool" was playing the role of "teacher".

Playing at a "casual level" is all well and good, certainly nothing wrong with that. However, a certain amount of instruction in technique is required even at the most basic of level to avoid possible physical injury and produce a pleasing tone.

I disagree that learning to practise an instrument is purely about self motivation; practising effectively is quite an art in itself and most certainly not all about making a noise on the instrument of choice.

As a Scientist, I would think you know anecdotal evidence does not a study make. Furthermore, one must not forget that philosophically speaking "science" is merely a methodological approach to solving a problem, lots of that in learning to play a musical instrument. I fail to see, therefore, how parents can afford to not take "the Arts" seriously.

gallygirl wrote: »

Sounds eminently sensible to me Alex (not something I ever thought I'd say on your thread :rotfl:) :T. I struggle to pick out different instruments when I listen to an orchestra (and think I'm a bit old for Peter & The Wolf ). I really wish they'd taught us ABOUT music rather than stuck a bl**dy recorder in our hands .

Why thank you, gallygirl. :beer:

You're not too old to learn about music. Should you wish to be able to pick out the instruments of the orchestra why not listen to some sonatas?

maman wrote: »

Which is precisely where the vast majority of state primary schools are with their music curriculum (with maybe a little percussion thrown in) and I'm happy with that. Beyond that some schools (generally where parents have the ability to pay) do offer instruments, some with interested staff offer the ocarina (;)) or recorder and then most families go down the private route.

I really can't see how it can be afforded, in terms of finance or time in taking children out of other lessons for individual instrument provision, at primary level. Maybe different when pupils have chosen specialist music at a later stage but even then I'm not sure.

Unfortunately, I cannot comment on the primary school curriculum and whether or not it is adequate. Though if last night's programme is anything to go by, it isn't.

AlexLK

NoOneAround wrote: »

Just found this thread by accident

---

this sound s so familiar -£160K debt sorted - Wow ...my hopes have been boosted by the this forum over the last week and just spiked big time


....will be back to read more as promised myself would not log in till lunch time
will look up these threads with even more hope.....

I wish you well, though perhaps am not really the best person to speak to about living frugally.

On another note, anyone know what happened to fc123?

NoOneAround

AlexLK wrote: »

I wish you well, though perhaps am not really the best person to speak to about living frugally.

On another note, anyone know what happened to fc123?

Not just looking at diaries for frugal living advice - that's just one aspect when previously we haven't thought about spending money too much...... am self employed with a couple of fun part time, we earn a good living by many standards - just haven't been frugal with spending on education - hence current situation
Was just intrigued by thread as the amount of debt is very similar to ours ....

heartbreak_star

AlexLK wrote: »

Unfortunately, I think his appearance (including attire) created the wrong impression, one that told the world Music is not to be viewed as a "serious" subject. I had not said he should be dressed in business attire, you did. Less enlightened parents also saw a lack of discipline in the classroom whilst Mr. "Cool" was playing the role of "teacher".

Playing at a "casual level" is all well and good, certainly nothing wrong with that. However, a certain amount of instruction in technique is required even at the most basic of level to avoid possible physical injury and produce a pleasing tone.

I disagree that learning to practise an instrument is purely about self motivation; practising effectively is quite an art in itself and most certainly not all about making a noise on the instrument of choice.

As a Scientist, I would think you know anecdotal evidence does not a study make. Furthermore, one must not forget that philosophically speaking "science" is merely a methodological approach to solving a problem, lots of that in learning to play a musical instrument. I fail to see, therefore, how parents can afford to not take "the Arts" seriously.

What would you suggest as "something more sensible"? Admittedly none of my teacher wore jeans but a few were in the polo shirts/t-shirts and chinos/slacks brigade, as am I these days

Am actually trying to recall whether we got much, if any instruction on technique. I didn't have a great run of music teachers (middle school one ended up in prison and high school one, while a delightful woman, was a mad alcoholic), but I do remember being taught breathing from the diaphragm when I learned singing and recorder I do know a bit about the art of practise, and I was lucky enough that my parents had a garage...I was "permitted" to use it for dance and "banished" there to practise violin :rotfl: I got to practise singing, bass and tenor recorder in the house, but that's because I didn't sound like a pained cat with those! I did often have to be nagged to practise if I hadn't been given a specific piece to learn, so I guess there is a bit of self-motivation and discipline required.

My anecdotes were merely examples and when I say "cannot afford to" I mean literally - it's the availability of decently-paying jobs in the arts that is the issue. Personally, I could have easily done dance at a higher level, but it was money that stopped me - it's a finite career that's only well paid if you get to the West End or similar...so I did biology instead (and ended up an engineer!).

I do wish and hope more can be done with regard to people enjoying and working within the arts. I think the world will be a far poorer place if they continue to lessen, but I really think we need some sort of economic recovery before the arts take an upturn again.

Gosh, that was a rather melancholy post, I need to stop with these early starts

HBS x

slowlyfading

Hmm, I disagree with some of the things you've said re: music education, but probably best leave it at that.

Hope you're having a good day.