Renting part of the granny annex

lizziloves

As other people above have said the lease licence distinction considers exlusive occupation. You could try looking in to whether having a cleaner clean the property once a month as part of the contract or provide breakfast in your own house for the person may stop an assured short hold tenancy being created.

As for the gas and electric you will need to ensure that you comply with the law on billing the occupant correctly and they need access to the heating boiler and electric consumer unit etc for example if the boiler or consumer unit is in the main house and you were away on holiday and an rcd tripped or the boiler went off the local authority would be likely to take enforcement action.

martindow

Has this been built or converted to residential recently? If so it would probably have needed planning permission.

Some towns like Slough are very concerned about 'sheds with beds' such as those recently discovered after an aerial survey. There are issues with poor conditions or lack of fire escapes as well as tenants being exploited.

In seaside resorts it is not unknown for some residents to camp out in converted sheds or garages at the end of the garden so they can rent out their houses by the week. These sometimes appear to be tolerated by local councils.

G_M

Whilst the question of Planning consent may be relevant... for Planning law purposes, it is irrelevant in the Tenant Vs Lodger debate.

terrierlady

could it become a holiday let? are you in an area which may be sort after?

taffer87

Am in a similar position.

I could do two things

1- Remove extractor fan and ekectric stove from kitchen in granny annexe - so there will be no cooking facilities. There will still be a microwave / hot plate but no kitchen. Effectively making the granny annexe an ensuite bedroom + kitchen sink + microwave. I think this would make the granny annexe non self contained. Please correct me if I am wrong?

In this case I could let it without cooking facilities and say kitchen can be shared on the weekend with the main house at certain times for e.g. 11am to 5pm on Sunday. And then it would be a lodger?

The property is in london near canary wharf - so I am guessing there will not shortage of demand - The room + washroom will have been refurbished and in great condition and close to a tube station.... rent obviously might be lower than an ensuite room + kitchen with no restrictions.

2- Alternatively, I understnad that I could provide services for e.g. have a lodger agrement - have a fortnightly cleaner who enters the granny annexe using my key (not lodgers), and maybe I go every fortnight to test fire alarms as well - an in addition I could provide a cereal and milk in the granny annexe kitchen every week. I understand that provision of these services would mean that its not a tenancy but a lodging agreement (effecetively they only have a licence not a tenancy?). I could even provide a clean bed sheet every fornight or something by entering room directly.

If I really have to, maybe I could have a cup of tea in the granny annex kitchen every morning if needed?

Under this scenario the council might still think that the annexe needs to be taxed for council tax purposes but at least it wont be a tenancy for mortgatge / eviction purposes?

Please let me know your thoughts

Guest101

taffer87 wrote: »

Am in a similar position.

I could do two things

1- Remove extractor fan and ekectric stove from kitchen in granny annexe - so there will be no cooking facilities. There will still be a microwave / hot plate but no kitchen. Effectively making the granny annexe an ensuite bedroom + kitchen sink + microwave. I think this would make the granny annexe non self contained. Please correct me if I am wrong? Depends if it's a stand alone building, whether access is shared. Doe sit have it's own front door? Council Tax? Land registry entry?

In this case I could let it without cooking facilities and say kitchen can be shared on the weekend with the main house at certain times for e.g. 11am to 5pm on Sunday. And then it would be a lodger? and what is the lodger/tenant supposed to do for food the other 6 days?!

The property is in london near canary wharf - so I am guessing there will not shortage of demand - The room + washroom will have been refurbished and in great condition and close to a tube station.... rent obviously might be lower than an ensuite room + kitchen with no restrictions.

2- Alternatively, I understnad that I could provide services for e.g. have a lodger agrement - have a fortnightly cleaner who enters the granny annexe using my key (not lodgers), and maybe I go every fortnight to test fire alarms as well - an in addition I could provide a cereal and milk in the granny annexe kitchen every week. I understand that provision of these services would mean that its not a tenancy but a lodging agreement (effecetively they only have a licence not a tenancy?). I could even provide a clean bed sheet every fornight or something by entering room directly.-interesting idea, but sadly i suspect you are barking up the wrong tree. Whilst yes it is possible to do what you suggested. It's easy to get wrong. A court could easily consider this a tenancy and that's it. By suggesting this i suspect this is a standalone flat and therefore it would be a tenancy. Why you want to get around this eludes me (aside from malicious reasons of course). However testing the fire alarms does not consitute a service. The rest are flimsy, the service would (in my opinion) need to be much fuller for the idea you have (otherwise all Landlords would do it!). What would you do if the tenant changed the locks?

If I really have to, maybe I could have a cup of tea in the granny annex kitchen every morning if needed? - This could be harassment and you could be arrested for it, if i have the right idea about your suggestion.

Under this scenario the council might still think that the annexe needs to be taxed for council tax purposes but at least it wont be a tenancy for mortgatge / eviction purposes? -if you pay council tax seperately for this property, you have pretty much zero chance of this not being a tenancy. - why not just get consent to let? Why are you avoiding eviction process (makes me wonder what else your avoiding)

Please let me know your thoughts

My thoughts are this is ill-conceived. As is often the case, when trying to circumvent the law, you will likely get caught out.

taffer87

I am not trying to circument the law - and this pre-conception isn't fair. The whole question is to understand the law and work within it. If at all possible - I do not want to create a tenancy (within the law). Furthermore, if staying within the law I can not create a seperate dwelling (by not having a kitchen in the granny annex) then I fail to see what's wrong with that?

What the person is supposed to do with food for the other days is not really my concern - as long as it clear what the agreement is upfront and then rent is suitably reduced compared to a full kitchen then what's the problem?

A lot of people don't cook food in kitchen these days - especially students etc. I am guessing but not 100% sure that there will be demand for an ensuite room even without any kitchen facilties - where the room is a good standard and close to the tube station and reasonably priced.

Also - if the agreement is clear that the kitchen of the granny annex will be shared then I fail to see how it is harrasment? Your response is very odd.

The annex doesn't have its own front door to the street but my house has a shared access pathway to the garden (shared with neighbour) and the annex is at the back of the garden. Utilities are shared - there is no seperate land registry entry / council tax etc.

I could even let it out on a Mon-Thursday basis if absoultely needed. Its my property and if staying within the law and accepting a lower rent - I can avoid creating a seperate dwelling and a tenancy then what's wrong with that?

I live with my family and if I can avoid the risk of a bad tenant living in the back garden - even if I get a lower rent - then what is the issue with researching and investigating all possible sources of avoiding a tenancy and ensuring it is a lodger (staying within the law at all times).

Guest101 wrote: »

My thoughts are this is ill-conceived. As is often the case, when trying to circumvent the law, you will likely get caught out.

HouseBuyer77

I guess the real point is you want someone to occupy the flat at the bottom of your garden but not really share living space with them. Fine, no problem, nothing wrong with that. However this is a tenancy.

If you want a lodger then you'll have to share living space with them, coming up with reasons that you sort of do share, when you clearly don't is unlikely to impress a judge/the council.

HouseBuyer77

There's also the point that you can just go ahead and do it anyway. Assuming you keep the annex well maintained I suspect whoever rents it will be perfectly happy and won't want to rock the boat. But should there be an issue between you or the council gets wind of it you may be in trouble.

Guest101

taffer87 wrote: »

I am not trying to circument the law - and this pre-conception isn't fair. I believe you are, because you suspect (as i do too) that this is a seperate dwelling and you want to avoid legalities in regards to tenancies & taxes. With that said I may be wrong, I have asked if you pay seperate council tax for it? If it's seperate on the Land Registry? The whole question is to understand the law and work within it. Can i suggest creating a tenancy in that case?If at all possible - I do not want to create a tenancy (within the law). Furthermore, if staying within the law I can not create a seperate dwelling (by not having a kitchen in the granny annex) then I fail to see what's wrong with that?- I suspect it will be a seperate dwelling and you will fail to meet the standard for having sufficient facilities for food preparation & storage.

What the person is supposed to do with food for the other days is not really my concern - as long as it clear what the agreement is upfront and then rent is suitably reduced compared to a full kitchen then what's the problem? - Because even with a lodger you still need to provide amenities which include the provision of storing and cooking food.

A lot of people don't cook food in kitchen these days - especially students etc. I am guessing but not 100% sure that there will be demand for an ensuite room even without any kitchen facilties - where the room is a good standard and close to the tube station and reasonably priced. - Covered above. Even with a lodger you must provide certain amenities (here's a guide from Cambridge Council specifically for students as you mentioned it. This is not definitive, but give you an idea http://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&frm=1&source=web&cd=2&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=0CCcQFjAB&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.anglia.ac.uk%2Fruskin%2Fen%2Fhome%2Fcentral%2Festates_facilities%2Faccommodation%2FLandlords.Maincontent.0012.file.tmp%2FCambridge%2520City%2520Council%2520guidance%2520for%2520resident%2520landlords.pdf&ei=4cFlVcfZKYGxU8u3gtgB&usg=AFQjCNHqwZyqLy51knGb8VrMPRSUsrM4aQ&bvm=bv.93990622,d.ZGU)

Also - if the agreement is clear that the kitchen of the granny annex will be shared then I fail to see how it is harrasment? Your response is very odd. - It can be harassment if you think its a lodgers agreement, turns out to be a tenancy and they have a right to 'quiet enjoyment', which whilst not absolute, would certainly prevent you from popping in for a drink every morning.

The annex doesn't have its own front door to the street but my house has a shared access pathway to the garden (shared with neighbour) and the annex is at the back of the garden. - I didnt say to the street. A flat doesnt have its own front door to the street either.

I could even let it out on a Mon-Thursday basis if absoultely needed. Its my property and if staying within the law and accepting a lower rent - I can avoid creating a seperate dwelling and a tenancy then what's wrong with that?- You might not have that choice. And if it is a tenancy, then it's the tenants property whilst they are a tenant.

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