Renting part of the granny annex

Guest101

Taken from https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/letting-rooms-in-your-home-a-guide-for-resident-landlords/letting-rooms-in-your-home-a-guide-for-resident-landlords

Ok step 1:
A. whether the landlord (or a member of his or her family) shares any accommodation with the person he or she is letting to
a. This is important in distinguishing whether the occupant is protected by legislation in terms of notice to leave and eviction: a non-sharing arrangement will generally give the occupant greater legal protection than where accommodation is shared. (For this reason, lettings which are outside this protection are known as ‘excluded’ tenancies and ‘excluded’ licences.) ‘Shared accommodation’ means any part other than stairs, halls, passageways or storage space; so that while a tenant in a self-contained flat would not be considered to be sharing accommodation with the landlord, even someone who has most of their own facilities but shares a toilet would. However, even if the occupier only shares accommodation with a member of the landlord’s family, the arrangement will still be counted as a sharing one if the landlord himself also lives in the house. To count as an excluded tenancy or licence, the landlord does not have to live in the house continuously, although it must have been his only or main home both before and at the end of the let.

2.6 What facilities should be provided?
You are free to decide most of these things with the person you let to, subject to the basic requirements of general housing law: you should provide access to kitchen, washing and toilet facilities (but these can be either the ones that you use or separate)

So if you had both these things i think it would be a lodger, but you dont. You dont share a property with him that is your only or main residence.

Guest101

taffer87 wrote: »

Thanks a lot for sharing your thoughts.

I can't seem to find the link re law - I know you posted some guidance but that wasn't really law?

Without being funny, if you want to google each section of the L&T Act or the Housing Act etc. Feel free, im summarising the effects, as did that guidance.

The Law does not say: The Granny Flat at the bottom of 26 A Street, London, W1 XXX is classed as a single residence for the purposes of a lodgers agreement.
- Its wide spread. It tries to cover every example and is interpreted by judges.

The council has conveniently summarised it for you. So has the .gov website i just posted.

PasturesNew

taffer87 wrote: »

Yeah maybe this is what I should pursue... where can I find the rules surrounding this??

https://www.airbnb.co.uk/host
http://www.spareroom.co.uk
http://www.montofri.com

They'll all have FAQs etc

taffer87

Thanks. That's where it gets interesting for me. A self-contained flat needs to have a kitchen. Would no kitchen in the annex and then either kitchen access on weekends or maybe even lets say weekday evenings 9pm-11pm weekdays work?

Also can't you let a the annex without a kitchen at all - and then its not self contained.

Guest101 wrote: »

Taken from https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/letting-rooms-in-your-home-a-guide-for-resident-landlords/letting-rooms-in-your-home-a-guide-for-resident-landlords

Ok step 1:
A. whether the landlord (or a member of his or her family) shares any accommodation with the person he or she is letting to
a. This is important in distinguishing whether the occupant is protected by legislation in terms of notice to leave and eviction: a non-sharing arrangement will generally give the occupant greater legal protection than where accommodation is shared. (For this reason, lettings which are outside this protection are known as ‘excluded’ tenancies and ‘excluded’ licences.) ‘Shared accommodation’ means any part other than stairs, halls, passageways or storage space; so that while a tenant in a self-contained flat would not be considered to be sharing accommodation with the landlord, even someone who has most of their own facilities but shares a toilet would. However, even if the occupier only shares accommodation with a member of the landlord’s family, the arrangement will still be counted as a sharing one if the landlord himself also lives in the house. To count as an excluded tenancy or licence, the landlord does not have to live in the house continuously, although it must have been his only or main home both before and at the end of the let.

2.6 What facilities should be provided?
You are free to decide most of these things with the person you let to, subject to the basic requirements of general housing law: you should provide access to kitchen, washing and toilet facilities (but these can be either the ones that you use or separate)

So if you had both these things i think it would be a lodger, but you dont. You dont share a property with him that is your only or main residence.

PasturesNew

taffer87 wrote: »

Thanks. That's where it gets interesting for me. A self-contained flat needs to have a kitchen. Would no kitchen in the annex and then either kitchen access on weekends or maybe even lets say weekday evenings 9pm-11pm weekdays work?

Also can't you let a the annex without a kitchen at all - and then its not self contained.

The real trouble is that as you twist and turn and create bizarre rules .... nobody wants to rent it as you're weird and they can't cook food. The only people who'd do it would be in a very awkward position and, long-term, would probably turn out to be a bigger pain than you can ever imagine .... or simply up and leave without notice/rent after a few weeks, once they'd found "somewhere proper".

taffer87

For me that's not an issue - the london rental market is booming...the annex is in good condition - recently refurbed... and close to a tube station - in a very good location in london and I will price it reasonably taking into account of these conditions.. for me the real issue is can it be done legally to give lodger status or no...

PasturesNew wrote: »

The real trouble is that as you twist and turn and create bizarre rules .... nobody wants to rent it as you're weird and they can't cook food. The only people who'd do it would be in a very awkward position and, long-term, would probably turn out to be a bigger pain than you can ever imagine .... or simply up and leave without notice/rent after a few weeks, once they'd found "somewhere proper".

Guest101

taffer87 wrote: »

Thanks. That's where it gets interesting for me. A self-contained flat needs to have a kitchen. Would no kitchen in the annex and then either kitchen access on weekends or maybe even lets say weekday evenings 9pm-11pm weekdays work?

Also can't you let a the annex without a kitchen at all - and then its not self contained.

I think you're reading this as: A flat cannot be self contained without a kitchen, no kitchen mean its not self contained.

Whereas it is: you can let a flat without a kitchen (as long as it has the relevant gas / electric supply for the tenant to install their own appliances.) But this would be a tenant.

And no I doubt very much you could claim access betwen 9pm and 11pm to be reasonable (even if this was a spare room in your main house)

taffer87

There is no gas supply. There is electric. But I doubt a lodger or tenant even can install a stove and an extractor fan (mandatory by law where you have a stove)... on his own accord.

Re: cooking access... you didn't read correctly.

What I am saying is the lodger who lives in the annex can have access to my main home's kitchen/dining area every working day from 9pm to 11pm and throughout on a weekend... he will have a small kitchen area himself (but no cooking facilities) so he can use that to make tea / store food in his fridge etc... at other times ..

In this case the lodger will not have self contained accomdoation.. and will be sharing living facilities with me (but not 24/7 - at certain agreed times)

Guest101 wrote: »

I think you're reading this as: A flat cannot be self contained without a kitchen, no kitchen mean its not self contained.

Whereas it is: you can let a flat without a kitchen (as long as it has the relevant gas / electric supply for the tenant to install their own appliances.) But this would be a tenant.

And no I doubt very much you could claim access betwen 9pm and 11pm to be reasonable (even if this was a spare room in your main house)

Guest101

taffer87 wrote: »

There is no gas supply. There is electric. But I doubt a lodger or tenant even can install a stove and an extractor fan (mandatory by law where you have a stove)... on his own accord. - The tenant can treat the property as their own, so can install reasonable cooking facilities. Though not alter the structure of the property. It is the LLs responsibility that there is sufficent access for cooking facilities. E.G gas and electric supply. (Im not aware of the law requirign an extraction fan, nor am i aware if you as a LL would be required to have one installed)
A lodger must have access to cooking facilities, supplied by the LL

Re: cooking access... you didn't read correctly.

What I am saying is the lodger who lives in the annex can have access to my main home's kitchen/dining area every working day from 9pm to 11pm and throughout on a weekend... he will have a small kitchen area himself (but no cooking facilities) so he can use that to make tea / store food in his fridge etc... at other times .. No i read it correctly. If the amenities are shared, that means unfettered access to. Shared equally. Not private. You are suggesting that for 80% of the time these are private. They should be private 0% of the time.

In this case the lodger will not have self contained accomdoation.. and will be sharing living facilities with me (but not 24/7 - at certain agreed times) I disagree, the tenant will have self contained accomodation, and able to install the necessary cooking facilities.

Above in red

taffer87

I don't agree with the lodger can install his own extractor fan - this requies an outside outlet - a physical change to the nature of the building.

So where does it say that a lodger must have access to shared living facilities at all times? If a lodger and I agree reasonable times - whether its 20% or 40% of the time - i can't see how its a problem. I suspect you are conjecturing / giving your opinion on this but saying it in a way to make it look like a fact. What's the source / case law?

I could supplement it with using the annex washroom for guests etc as its in the ground floor.

Plus i could provide services like cleaning - clean bed sheet - cereal and milk.

On the basis of my reading of the law all of the above combined should give me sufficient protection (not just in agreements but actually implementing them). Of course, only case law can confirm which is extremely unlikely anyway.

Guest101 wrote: »

Above in red