Renting part of the granny annex

taffer87

Yeah I am happy to share living space when I am at home for e.g ideally I don't mind sharing kitchen over the weekend (I often work very long hours in the week) not sure if this is possible?

I am pretty sure that without a kitchen stove / cooking facilities / extractor fan the annexe can no be considered a stand alone dwelling.

And also I am perefectly happy to share the living space in the annex (kitchen / bathroom) on a regularb asis if it gets aroudn the problem of tenancy and creates a lodger.

I thought that the provision of services (cleaning / breakfast / clean bed sheet) on a regular basis would make it more of a B&B arrangement (which is effectively a licence) rather than a tenancy?

HouseBuyer77 wrote: »

I guess the real point is you want someone to occupy the flat at the bottom of your garden but not really share living space with them. Fine, no problem, nothing wrong with that. However this is a tenancy.

If you want a lodger then you'll have to share living space with them, coming up with reasons that you sort of do share, when you clearly don't is unlikely to impress a judge/the council.

Guest101

HouseBuyer77 wrote: »

There's also the point that you can just go ahead and do it anyway. Assuming you keep the annex well maintained I suspect whoever rents it will be perfectly happy and won't want to rock the boat. But should there be an issue between you or the council gets wind of it you may be in trouble.

Council; tenant with some knowledge; mortgage lender; HMRC - just top of my head.

Then you have the issue of deposit protection?

Gas Safety - ( you need this for both lodger and tenant) so really something to do sooner than later.

Guest101

taffer87 wrote: »

Yeah I am happy to share living space when I am at home for e.g ideally I don't mind sharing kitchen over the weekend (I often work very long hours in the week) not sure if this is possible?

I am pretty sure that without a kitchen stove / cooking facilities / extractor fan the annexe can no be considered a stand alone dwelling.

And also I am perefectly happy to share the living space in the annex (kitchen / bathroom) on a regularb asis if it gets aroudn the problem of tenancy and creates a lodger.

I thought that the provision of services (cleaning / breakfast / clean bed sheet) on a regular basis would make it more of a B&B arrangement (which is effectively a licence) rather than a tenancy?

Why are you avoiding creating a tenancy?

Get consent to let, do the checks, be a good landlord, carefully choose tenants, thousands of landlords are careful and very very rarely encounter any problems.

HouseBuyer77

No idea about the B&B front. I'm sure you could basically run it as a long-term B&B, though of course there's different rules surrounding that.

If you removed the kitchen entirely so the tenant would always be using the main kitchen to prepare meals that may well suffice. It's just the prior suggestion of providing a hot plate and microwave and giving the lodger restricted kitchen access really paints a picture of not wanting to share whilst appearing to do so (one can happily prepare many meals with a hotplate and microwave, even if a stove would be preferable). Allowing full access to the sitting room would also help demonstrate this is a shared living arragment.

taffer87

Sure obviously if I don't have a chocie but to create a tenancy then that's what I will do or maybe leave the whole idea.

What I am trying to understand is if there are possible ways of not creating tenancy staying within the law.

Maybe I could do air bnb for e.g. if there is no way of avoiding tenancy? now-here-this.timeout.com/2015/05/27/you-can-now-rent-your-spare-room-to-tourists-without-getting-fined/

So is renting an ensuite room without cooking facilities actually illegal?

Maybe I could share the bathroom in the annexe as there is no other bathroom on the ground floor - and use it for guests etc for e.g.?

Guest101 wrote: »

Above in red

taffer87

Thanks. I don't think sitting room access is required from reading - only kitchen and washroom sharing is sufficient..

What if I allow kitchen access all weekend but not on weekdays?

I am intrigued now - there must be case law around these things?

HouseBuyer77 wrote: »

No idea about the B&B front. I'm sure you could basically run it as a long-term B&B, though of course there's different rules surrounding that.

If you removed the kitchen entirely so the tenant would always be using the main kitchen to prepare meals that may well suffice. It's just the prior suggestion of providing a hot plate and microwave and giving the lodger restricted kitchen access really paints a picture of not wanting to share whilst appearing to do so (one can happily prepare many meals with a hotplate and microwave, even if a stove would be preferable). Allowing full access to the sitting room would also help demonstrate this is a shared living arragment.

taffer87

Its a risk v reward decision, If there is a way to avoid a tenancy and accepting lower rent - then that's what I would like to do.

Obviously if there is no way this is possible at all within the laws then I will have to reconsider.

Thank you

Guest101 wrote: »

Why are you avoiding creating a tenancy?

Get consent to let, do the checks, be a good landlord, carefully choose tenants, thousands of landlords are careful and very very rarely encounter any problems.

HouseBuyer77

Maybe I could do air bnb for e.g. if there is no way of avoiding tenancy?

I'd note air bnb is getting in legal trouble (or rather the providers of rooms on air bnb) all over the world due to the legal grey area it occupies.

Guest101

taffer87 wrote: »

Sure obviously if I don't have a chocie but to create a tenancy then that's what I will do or maybe leave the whole idea.

What I am trying to understand is if there are possible ways of not creating tenancy staying within the law.

Maybe I could do air bnb for e.g. if there is no way of avoiding tenancy? now-here-this.timeout.com/2015/05/27/you-can-now-rent-your-spare-room-to-tourists-without-getting-fined/

So is renting an ensuite room without cooking facilities actually illegal?

Maybe I could share the bathroom in the annexe as there is no other bathroom on the ground floor - and use it for guests etc for e.g.?

If i understood your reasons for avoiding a tenancy, it would be easier to assist you. i.e. allaying your fears.

Renting an en-suite room, and providing cooking facilities in the room is not illegal - its a bedsit style, which may get you some lower rent. The problem is, this is a stand alone structure. You do not live in the property. You'e only real defence (and im still not clear if this is right) is that you share a plot of land with the property.

Sharing the bathroom - would invalidate your claim that it's ensuite.

Loophole lawyering on this kind of things to save a few quid could end up costing you much much more.

Think about it, you take a £500 deposit? probably more in london. You dont protect it, court rules it a tenancy, tenant sues you for 1-3x the deposit. Straight away upto £1500 down.

You evict the 'lodger' by changing the locks, he goes to court, court rules its a tenancy - thats £200 per day for lack of access (court can take upto 6 week) so that potenitally £8k in damages you're paying them.

Mortgage lender finds out and decides (its unlikely, but lets go worst case on this one) to cancel your mortgage, do you have £x00,000 in the bank to pay it off?

Guest101

taffer87 wrote: »

Thanks. I don't think sitting room access is required from reading - only kitchen and washroom sharing is sufficient..

What if I allow kitchen access all weekend but not on weekdays?

I am intrigued now - there must be case law around these things?

It's in the link i posted earlier.