Intellectual property owners and lawful seizure of 'fake' property in the UK

AlAlbert

mo786uk wrote: »

I guess those were people selling fake merchandise inside the groudns of the arena

Although they may not technically have the pwoer to seize I think that is different from what teh Op was envisaging - which was a general righto seize stuff wherever you are.

That is correct. The scenario offered there is different to the general question I had in mind.

AlAlbert

halibut2209 wrote: »

And there are many other incidents of pubs "confiscating" alcohol from people who have brought in their own,[...] Doesn't make it legal.

Indeed. My goal here is to find evidence of its legality. So far, such verifiable evidence has been thin on the ground (i.e. wholly absent).

halibut2209 wrote: »

or supermarket security guards detaining people.

Note that this is a somewhat different scenario.

AlAlbert

Many thanks to everyone for your replies in this thread so far.

earthstorm

AlAlbert wrote: »

Thanks for your response but you are in effect only repeating the urban legend here. ;-) The reason I began this thread was to find out what is the legal authority for such seizure. Can you name the legislation (specific sections please) that provide for the authority for the IP owner to do this? If you cannot name the legislation then, in the nicest possible way, I don't believe you. Without references, your statement is just another unsourced claim, of which there are many in this context. It is a field rich in FUD.

So you dont watch programs such as fake britain where TS will turn up at market stalls/high street store and seize van loads of counterfeit items and then send samples of these to the registered IP owner to confirm if they are fake or not.

http://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/1987/1521/contents/made

http://customs.hmrc.gov.uk/channelsPortalWebApp/channelsPortalWebApp.portal?_nfpb=true&_pageLabel=pageLibrary_ShowContent&id=HMCE_CL_000244&propertyType=document

wealdroam

earthstorm wrote: »

So you dont watch programs such as fake britain where TS will turn up at market stalls/high street store and seize van loads of counterfeit items and then send samples of these to the registered IP owner to confirm if they are fake or not.

http://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/1987/1521/contents/made

http://customs.hmrc.gov.uk/channelsPortalWebApp/channelsPortalWebApp.portal?_nfpb=true&_pageLabel=pageLibrary_ShowContent&id=HMCE_CL_000244&propertyType=document

Earthstorm, doesn't that legislation just allow HMRC to seize goods?

It seems that there is a process for the IP owner to tip off HMRC, but I couldn't spot anything allowing HMRC to 'devolve power' to the IP owner.
It may well be there though, so could you please point out exactly where, if you have seen it?

George_Michael

earthstorm wrote: »

So you dont watch programs such as fake britain where TS will turn up at market stalls/high street store and seize van loads of counterfeit items and then send samples of these to the registered IP owner to confirm if they are fake or not.

As has already been pointed out to you many times before, the selling of counterfeit goods in the UK is a criminal offence thus giving the legal authorities the right to seize these goods.

This thread was started with someone asking what rights retailers and manufacturers have to retain and/or destroy fake goods from private individuals and not what are the rights of the authorities with regards to sellers or manufacturers of counterfeits.
Simply owning counterfeit goods is not illegal, and despite what you keep claiming (and failing to provide any proof of), there is no right of seizure of these items from their owners.

shaun_from_Africa

AlAlbert wrote: »

more urban legend and FUD. It is not illegal in the UK to merely own a counterfeit item.

Which is exactly what many people have been saying on this thread.
I realise that the snippet below isn't a legal document.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/8215519.stm

In France, the maximum fine is 300,000 euro (£260,000) or three years in jail.
The UK government has decided against criminalising consumers. Instead it has launched an information campaign aimed at people using markets and boot sales.

Not a criminal offense so what gives retailers or manufacturers the right to steal and destroy legally owned goods belonging to another person?

mo786uk

How about this, which on my reading still wouldn't apply to one offs, but rather large volumes. I have ppasted oen relevant pargraph of a case from the 19070s from the Court of Appeal (which also went on to the House of Lords).

[FONT=&quot]Norwich Pharmacal Co and others v Commissioners of Customs and Excise - [/FONT]

[FONT=&quot][1972] 3 All ER 813[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]If a man has in his possession or control goods the dissemination of which, whether in the way of trade or, possibly, merely by way of gifts (see Upmann v Forester) will infringe another's patent or trade mark, he becomes, as soon as he is aware of this fact, subject to a duty (an equitable duty) not to allow those goods to pass out of his possession or control at any rate in circumstances in which the proprietor of the patent or mark might be injured by infringement ensuing. The man having the goods in his possession or control must not aid the infringement by letting the goods get into the hands of those who may use them or deal with them in a way which will invade the proprietor's rights. Even though by doing so he might not himself infringe the patent or trade mark, he would be in dereliction of his duty to the proprietor. This duty is one which will, if necessary, be enforced in equity by way of injunction (Upmann v Elkan). The man having possession or control may also be under a duty to give information in relation to the goods to the proprietor of the patent or mark (Upmann v Elkan).[/FONT]

Joe_Horner

earthstorm wrote: »

Also the information contained in the book is the the retailers eyes only.

Trust me, if I ever happen to walk into your store, in good faith, with something that you believe to be counterfeit and you try to seize it, you will be showing me that "retailers eyes only" document before you succeed

Joe_Horner

halibut2209 wrote: »

And there are many other incidents of pubs "confiscating" alcohol from people who have brought in their own, or supermarket security guards detaining people. Doesn't make it legal.

Supermarket security can detain people legally if it's during the commission of an offence, exactly like any member of the public can - they have no more, or less, powers than a member of the general public.

That's why they'll challenge and detain shoplifters after they leave the premises. No matter how obvious the shoplifting is (CCTV showing them stuffing things in their pockets for example), no offence is committed until they leave the premises without paying.