Intellectual property owners and lawful seizure of 'fake' property in the UK

vaio

earthstorm wrote: »

most large international retailers like Apple/Adidas etc. will have orders in place allowing them to seize goods know to be counterfeit. No good handing them to TS as TS cant do anything until they confirm they are counterfeit which they do by handing them to the intellectual property to confirm if they are genuine or counterfeit.
We sell a line of electronic items in out toy stores, we have a book of how to spot fakes and in this book is a copy of a document allowing us to seize the goods to pass onto TS for them to pass onto the intellectual property owner.

Can you post a copy of this document or a note to the legislation that give you this power?

mo786uk

Private companies do not have a general right to seize fake items (because that is what they are doing).

As someone has said, rights holders can apply to the court to take possesion of fake goods but i highly doubt a court would just give an open ended order that allows them to seize whatever they want. They would most likely have to specify which particular person holds the item

However if it is passed onto someone who does have that right (i.e a Trading Standards or Polcie Officer) then that person could seize and retain it.

Practically speaking, if a rights owner takes your goods you are presumably goign to have to go to court to get them back - which may to a hassle. Depends on the scenario whetehr it is worth it or not.

I knwo the advice with coutnerfeit money is that you should not give it back - so that conflicts a bit with this.

earthstorm

vaio wrote: »

Can you post a copy of this document or a note to the legislation that give you this power?

It is provided in the book they provide to all their authorised retailers who are authorised to take in their goods to send off for repair. It is a legal document issued by the courts. I dont think i am allowed to copy this .

This is kept at my retail premises

ValHaller

earthstorm wrote: »

It is a legal document issued by the courts. I dont think i am allowed to copy this .

If it is a genuine court order, then it is a matter of public record and it can be copied unless the order itself forbids publication. And it should at least be possible to provide a reference to the court order

However, if it is a counterfeit court order, then the intellectual property is held by someone who can instruct that copies are not made.

If you can't make a copy, it sounds to me like a counterfeit court order.

ThumbRemote

mo786uk wrote: »

I knwo the advice with coutnerfeit money is that you should not give it back - so that conflicts a bit with this.

Counterfeit money is dealt with separately under the Forgery and Counterfeiting Act 1981. Section 16 includes "It is an offence for a person to have in his custody or under his control, without lawful authority or excuse, any thing which is, and which he knows or believes to be, a counterfeit of a currency note or of a protected coin."

It is illegal for anyone, including the retailer, to have known counterfeit money, so it should be passed to the police immediately.

earthstorm

ValHaller wrote: »

If it is a genuine court order, then it is a matter of public record and it can be copied unless the order itself forbids publication. And it should at least be possible to provide a reference to the court order

However, if it is a counterfeit court order, then the intellectual property is held by someone who can instruct that copies are not made.

If you can't make a copy, it sounds to me like a counterfeit court order.

it is a legal document issued to the intellectual property owner to pass onto their retailer network giving the authority to seize and of their branded items that are considered counterfeit so it can be checked and verified if fake or not. All i know is that if we suspect a counterfeit item, we seize it, then contacted the intellectual property owner and TS. TS then comes and take it.
I dont have this at hand as it at the retail premises

cookie365

earthstorm wrote: »

it is a legal document issued to the intellectual property owner to pass onto their retailer network giving the authority to seize and of their branded items that are considered counterfeit so it can be checked and verified if fake or not. All i know is that if we suspect a counterfeit item, we seize it, then contacted the intellectual property owner and TS. TS then comes and take it.
I dont have this at hand as it at the retail premises

Issued by who? Considered by who?

wealdroam

cookie365 wrote: »

Issued by who? Considered by who?

Post#24 answers your first question:

earthstorm wrote: »

It is a legal document issued by the courts.

vaio

earthstorm wrote: »

it is a legal document issued to the intellectual property owner to pass onto their retailer network giving the authority to seize and of their branded items that are considered counterfeit so it can be checked and verified if fake or not. All i know is that if we suspect a counterfeit item, we seize it, then contacted the intellectual property owner and TS. TS then comes and take it.
I dont have this at hand as it at the retail premises

TS have a statutory right power to inspect & seize, I'd be surprised if the courts would (or even could) give such open ended far reaching power to a manufacturer and even more so if the manufacturer had the right to pass those powers down to retailers.

As it's a court document there is no reason you can't post a copy (with identification details removed of course)

Thinking about credit/debit cards, the card issuers retain ownership of the cards so can reclaim them at any time but even their instructions to retailers in the case of stolen etc cards being presented are along the lines of "retain if possible" rather then "retain or seize"

earthstorm

their again something else MSE users seem to know more about that official agencies.
the paperwork i have has been check by TS as legal and can be used to allow me to seize goods suspected of being fake on behalf of the intellectual property owner, which is different to the manufacturer.