Purchased car 2nd hand with full mot but.........

jimjames

stef240377 wrote: »

Roadworthy in the condition it was sold in not a death trap? Or am i expecting too much from a second hand car?

Im not in a position to take out finance on a car not that this is a factor with the questions i have asked regarding this car.

You are not expecting too much from a secondhand car. You are expecting too much for one sold as spares.

If you are sold it as for spares how can you expect that it is anything other than as described.

A car for spares only has to meet that description

EDIT - just seen the dealer reply which seems to contradict the statement that it was sold for spares and instead says was a good runner.

Joe_Horner wrote: »

No they're not in law. Both are meaningless phrases which can't be used to offset other claims in an advert - two key ones in this case being "12 months MOT" and "good runner" (or whatever exact words were used).

I disagree but irrelevant now given that the trader has come back.

A car can run and have an MOT but still only be suitable for spares.

bigjl

And this is why i preferred to use WBAC when i sold my V50

You want to buh a car for as little as possible.

Sold as spares or repair and expect it to be a fully functioning car with no issues.

If i was the trader i would have fixed the issues.

But there is no guarantee the suspension issue was present when mot was done.

So publishing the mot station vts number is wrong.

Glad i am no longer in the trade.

Very glad.

World is full of internet lawyers.

john_white

spam reported

nobbysn*ts

bigjl wrote: »

And this is why i preferred to use WBAC when i sold my V50

You want to buh a car for as little as possible.

Sold as spares or repair and expect it to be a fully functioning car with no issues.

If i was the trader i would have fixed the issues.

But there is no guarantee the suspension issue was present when mot was done.

So publishing the mot station vts number is wrong.

Glad i am no longer in the trade.

Very glad.

World is full of internet lawyers.

To be fair, selling your car to "we buy any car" shows you never had the brains to be in the trade in the first place!

Joe_Horner

jimjames wrote: »

You are not expecting too much from a secondhand car. You are expecting too much for one sold as spares.

If you are sold it as for spares how can you expect that it is anything other than as described.

A car for spares only has to meet that description

EDIT - just seen the dealer reply which seems to contradict the statement that it was sold for spares and instead says was a good runner.



I disagree but irrelevant now given that the trader has come back.

A car can run and have an MOT but still only be suitable for spares.

It's irrelevant to this thread, but still very relevant for others in a similar situation.

Here is Norfolk Trading Standards take on the matter. The bold at the start is their bold, the red bits are my highlights that absolutely confirm the advice I gave above:

Sale of vehicles for spares or repair

If you sell a vehicle or a trailer, the presumption will be that it is going to be used on the road. This means that it is required to be in a safe and roadworthy condition at the time of offering or exposing it for sale.


However occasionally you may have a vehicle that is damaged or in such a degraded condition it makes it un-economical for you to repair, but it still may be of value to a specialist repairer or amateur enthusiast who is knowledgeable and skilful enough to undertake their own repairs to bring it to a standard where it would be roadworthy. This category we will call ‘Spares or repair’.

If you have a vehicle that is for spares or repair, as a trader, you must ensure that any purchaser knows before purchase that the vehicle cannot be used on the road in its current condition. This includes driving it away from your premises after a sale. Failure to do so may expose both the seller (you) and the driver to possible prosecution.

To avoid committing an offence under the Act, it requires you to take -
‘all reasonable steps to ensure that any prospective purchaser would be aware that its use in its current condition on a road in Great Britain would be unlawful
’
This effectively means you will need to inform any potential buyer that they cannot use the vehicle until it has been fully repaired, has a current MOT test certificate and this would need to be before the purchaser has decided to make the purchase (see the Road Traffic Act s.75 (6A)).

These reasonable steps would be for a court to decide in each individual circumstance.

• We would advise that it is offered for sale in a separate area from your normal vehicles.
• That a clear notice is displayed on the vehicle that it’s for spares and repair only, that in its current condition it must be regarded as unroadworthy and it cannot be used on the road before repair and an appropriate MOT test has been passed.
• That all this information is clearly recorded on any invoice or paperwork that you give to the purchaser.
• Make sure that your documentation clearly informs the purchaser they can only remove the vehicle from your premises on a trailer or a low-loader car transporter.
• Ensure the purchaser understands this and signs the documentation to confirm and record that they understood these facts and will carry out all these requirements before any use on a highway.
• Do not supply to the purchaser the previous MOT certificate or tax disc
• You must also ensure that the purchaser does remove the vehicle by transporter or trailer, or refuse the supply of the vehicle

www.norfolk.gov.uk/view/ncc117827



eta: Virtually identical advice from Bedford Borough Council:

https://www.bedford.gov.uk/environment_and_planning/env_health__trading_standards/fair_trading.aspx#MileageFraud

And, from the OFT, "spares or repair" is specifically listed as an unlawful attempt to limit SOGA rights:

Using words or statements in sales to consumers such as ‘Sold as seen’,
‘Unroadworthy’, ‘Trade Sale Only’, ‘No Refund’, ‘Spare or Repair’ or ‘Sold as Scrap’, even if the statement ‘this does not affect your statutory rights’ is included.

From Section 13 "Attempting to limit your liability under the SoGA" :

https://www.oft.gov.uk/shared_oft/reports/676408/oft1241.pdf

topdaddy_2

This effectively means!you will need to inform any potential buyer that they cannot use the vehicle until it has been fully repaired, has a current MOT test certificate and this would need to be before the purchaser has decided to make the purchase (see the Road Traffic Act s.75 (6A)).

So if i say "spares or repair" ive kept my end of the bargin. Spares- take bit off it and put them on other cars. Or repairs-fix whats broke. No more need be said.

topdaddy_2

And in aswer to earlier posts, the possible spam was quoted.

Joe_Horner

topdaddy wrote: »

This effectively means!you will need to inform any potential buyer that they cannot use the vehicle until it has been fully repaired, has a current MOT test certificate and this would need to be before the purchaser has decided to make the purchase (see the Road Traffic Act s.75 (6A)).

So if i say "spares or repair" ive kept my end of the bargin. Spares- take bit off it and put them on other cars. Or repairs-fix whats broke. No more need be said.

Err, no. Read the rest:

DO NOT give them any existing MOT or tax

DO NOT allow them to buy it if they don't have a trailer or low loader to take it away on

DO inform them SPECIFICALLY that it must not be driven until repaired

DO tell them that if they buy it they have to trailer it away

DO mark the paperwork that IT MUST NOT BE DRIVEN BEFORE REPAIR.

And so on.

You may not agree with the law about this, you may even think it's ridiculous. But it IS the law, and the above IS the interpretation of it applied by Trading Standards and the OFT. So what you may think of it is really pretty irrelevant

topdaddy_2

Joe_Horner wrote: »

Err, no. Read the rest:

DO NOT give them any existing MOT or tax

DO NOT allow them to buy it if they don't have a trailer or low loader to take it away on

DO inform them SPECIFICALLY that it must not be driven until repaired

DO tell them that if they buy it they have to trailer it away

DO mark the paperwork that IT MUST NOT BE DRIVEN BEFORE REPAIR.

And so on.

You may not agree with the law about this, you may even think it's ridiculous. But it IS the law, and the above IS the interpretation of it applied by Trading Standards and the OFT. So what you may think of it is really pretty irrelevant

All done by the phrase spares or repair.

Joe_Horner

topdaddy wrote: »

All done by the phrase spares or repair.

No it isn't, as the OFFICIAL Trading Standards and OFT advice I've linked to above makes absolutely clear!

It might cover it if you said "spares or repair - must not be used on the road before repair" and refused to hand over the MOT and tax, but in that case you would also have to refuse the sale if they didn't turn up with a trailer.

Note that this is not "my opinion", it's the clearly stated position of the authorities who control these things!