Return Fraud

retepetsir

I have never had an issue on eBay with buying or selling but that all changed last night!

I received a lovely (not) email from the buyer of a fully working camera that I had sold last week, claiming it's not working. He also explains that he has a A95 which has broken in the same way. He wants a full refund and then will decide whether to return it, or will keep it for parts apparently! I had fully tested the camera but stupidly did not 'sold as untested' in the listing.

He has just opened an eBay case so what is the betting he'll return his faulty camera in its place and I lose my working camera and the money?

Here are his two messages before opening the case:

I would like you to return my money £27.50 for canon a 95 I unfortunately bought from you.
The camera is faulty, showing blur pinkish vertical lines when want to see taken images either on lcd or laptop.
This is very common issue with this model and it probably just happened to you and you wanted to get rid of camera. I am extremely dissapointed and upset about it.
Eventually I will pay return postage to you, it is up to you if you want to add £5 for return postage, to be fair person.
Please make a payment immediately. Then i will send camera back to you.

Your camera came in excellent packaging condition, so simply it wasn't working when you were sending it.
Look, I had a95 before and I had exactly the same problem: blur pink distorted images when you want to view it.
And it happened suddenly, same like in your case.
But instead of cheating someone else I keep it for parts.
I want you to send my money back which you intentionally and consciously stolen from me because I don't want to loose more on dealing with someone like you. I paid you money before you send me your broken camera.
See attached photo taken by your camera and feel a shame, man. There is your packaging on it, lovely isn't?

By the way CCD in canon a 95 breaks suddenly, so it doesn't matter that you have taken any pictures before you sent it.

It broke , you tried to sell. No doubts about it.

The photo he included shows the memory card on the table....how does that work :rotfl:

So what do I do? It sounds like eBay will take the money back from what I've previously heard

shaun_from_Africa

You should tell your buyer that they must open an ebay dispute so that you can put your side of the argument (including the fact that they have admitted having an almost identical broken model) and there is no way that you are going to refund until your camera has been returned to you and you have checked the serial number, and that as it was working fine when sold, you are not willing to pay the return postage costs.

If they win the dispute (which is extremely likely), they will probably have to ensure that they return the camera by a tracked method, and only when they have done this, will they get the refund.
eBay sometimes give a goodwill payment & refund out of their own pockets and other times they will pay the return postal charges to the buyer.

If they do send it back tracked, don't consider refusing to accept the delivery as attempted delivery will be enough to get them their money back.

Irn-Bru-Kid

Just respond to the case asking him to return and then refund. He will need to return by a trackable method.

Entirely up to you if you want to cover the return postage, as eBay won't force you to. I am assuming you are a private seller?

If the buyer returns the wrong item, you can raise this with eBay, but if he can prove a return (tracked) he will be refunded in full.

Under no circumstances refund before you have received the camera.

spacey2012

Follow the E-bay rules exactly until it comes back .
If you still have some pictures taken with the camera already on a computer you sold download free program irfan view and the plug-ins and install it .
Open an old image, select from top line commands "image", then information from sub- menu and click EXIF on the box that opens, scroll down and you will see the cameras serial number.
Take a picture on the returned camera and repeat .
The serial number from the old picture should match the one he returns, if it does not, file a response to the dispute highlighting this.

He may just swap the bottom covers over, the embedded serial number can not be changed.
Perhaps he is not as clever as he thought.

peter_the_piper

I do hope you have all serial numbers just in case he/she accidently sends the wrong camera back.

George_Michael

Unfortunately, having the serial number of the sold camera and finding that the one returned are different is unlikely to help with a dispute.
ebay and paypal normally take the path of least resistance and if a buyer states that they sent back the same item as they received, this will generally be good enough for them.

Even if the OP has a photograph showing a camera serial number, there is no way for them to prove that this was the same camera that they actually posted to their buyer.

I could list a Rolex watch for sale and show a nice clear photograph including the serial number of the watch, but when I came to post it, I could send them a £20 "Singapore special"
(I'm not implying that this is the case here, simply how ebay and paypal will look at it).

theonlywayisup

George_Michael wrote: »

Unfortunately, having the serial number of the sold camera and finding that the one returned are different is unlikely to help with a dispute.
ebay and paypal normally take the path of least resistance and if a buyer states that they sent back the same item as they received, this will generally be good enough for them.

Even if the OP has a photograph showing a camera serial number, there is no way for them to prove that this was the same camera that they actually posted to their buyer.

I could list a Rolex watch for sale and show a nice clear photograph including the serial number of the watch, but when I came to post it, I could send them a £20 "Singapore special"
(I'm not implying that this is the case here, simply how ebay and paypal will look at it).

Not quite true. A seller can appeal a lost case for SNAD if the wrong item is returned. Ebay reimburse the seller from their own funds and remove the case from their dashboard and all feedback DSR are removed too.

OP, you will not win a case. Just ask the buyer to return it to you and when it is returned you can either come back here for more help or refund if it is as you sent it.

hermum

Why would someone buy an item when they know there's a common fault with that model?
Unless they're trying to rip someone off.

retepetsir

Thank you for all of the help everyone

A case has been opened so I will play it out as suggested.

Hermum that was exactly my point, why would you say 'I have a broken one' then buy an identical model and say how common the fault is?

I'm a private seller with 450+ positive feedback, 100%. Frustrating!

spacey2012

I was thinking also along the lines of issuing a county court claim if the seller swaps cameras or bases, E-bay might give them the money back, it does not absolve the buyer of his duties under our laws.

If he defrauds the seller out of a working camera and the return has a different embedded serial, that is fraud and E-bays rules are just policies, not law.

If it were I in this situation I would do the tests and a LBA warning would be on the buyers door mat the next day.

retepetsir

Thanks everyone. I have initiated the returns process so we'll see how it goes!