driving instructor and phone

JimmyTheWig

Jamie_Carter wrote: »

It would be dangerous in an emergency situation where the instructor has to take control. And that is what they are expected to do.

Presumably the instructor would just let their phone drop to the floor if there was an emergency. I don't see that taking any time at all in the scheme of them reaching over to grab the wheel. Which is why I don't think that an instructor holding a phone is any more dangerous than an instructor using hands-free.

As to whether the distraction means it would take him longer to realise there is an emergency situation I guess it could. Which is why I said it must increase the chances of an accident.
I've never heard of any accidents happening in these circumstances, however, which is why I believe the increase in chance of an accident is small.

I've heard of people having accidents while using their phone.
I've heard of people having accidents whilst over the alcohol limit.
I've heard of people having accidents when changing a CD.
I've heard of people having accidents when tired.
I've heard of people having accidents when driving too fast.
I haven't heard of people having accidents when their instructor was on the phone.

Jamie_Carter

vaio wrote: »

Don't suppose you have a link to the actual law?

It's a bit of a grey area:

Using hands-free devices when driving

You can use hands-free phones, sat navs and 2-way radios when you’re driving or riding. But if the police think you’re distracted and not in control of your vehicle you could still get stopped and penalised.

https://www.gov.uk/using-mobile-phones-when-driving-the-law

As we all know, an instructor is in charge of the vehicle, and is covered by the same laws as if they were driving.

Aretnap

vaio wrote: »

Don't suppose you have a link to the actual law?

http://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/2003/2695/made

(3) No person shall supervise a holder of a provisional licence if the person supervising is using—
(a)a hand-held mobile telephone; or
(b)a hand-held device of a kind specified in paragraph (4),
at a time when the provisional licence holder is driving a motor vehicle on a road.

So incidentally 'tis not illegal to use a hands free phone while supervising a learner. Which is a little ridiculous as it's not the holding of the phone which creates the danger, but the distraction caused by having to concentrate on having a conversation with someone who isn't there. But that's just as true of using a phone while driving as it is of using a phone while supervising someone, and the law can be a funny thing sometimes.

fart

Jamie_Carter wrote: »

It's a bit of a grey area:



https://www.gov.uk/using-mobile-phones-when-driving-the-law

Nothing in the law that says you can't.

As i've previously mentioned, motorcycle instructors use radio to communicate with their learner riders.

So as nothing in the law says that hands free isn't allowed, i take it you'll be retracting this statement:

I have experienced almost on a daily basis, people who seem incapable of reacting properly to an emergency vehicle, because they are concentrating on their phone call. If it is a driving instructor, then they should be concentrating 100%, especially as many learners panic when they see an approaching emergency vehicle.

Because presumably you're concentrating on a phone call whether or not the use of your hand is involved? But how can that be! The law says talking without using a hand is fine!

See my sig.

Jamie_Carter

JimmyTheWig wrote: »

Presumably the instructor would just let their phone drop to the floor if there was an emergency. I don't see that taking any time at all in the scheme of them reaching over to grab the wheel. Which is why I don't think that an instructor holding a phone is any more dangerous than an instructor using hands-free.

As to whether the distraction means it would take him longer to realise there is an emergency situation I guess it could. Which is why I said it must increase the chances of an accident.
I've never heard of any accidents happening in these circumstances, however, which is why I believe the increase in chance of an accident is small.

I've heard of people having accidents while using their phone.
I've heard of people having accidents whilst over the alcohol limit.
I've heard of people having accidents when changing a CD.
I've heard of people having accidents when tired.
I've heard of people having accidents when driving too fast.
I haven't heard of people having accidents when their instructor was on the phone.

And it's the distraction that is the issue, as you say.

I haven't heard of a particular incident either. But then what percentage of the cars on the roads are being driven by learners at any moment in time? And what percentage of those instructors break the law, and use their mobiles? And then what are the actual odds of that learner driver being in an emergency situation that they can't deal with?


There are many people who have driven around using their mobiles whilst driving for many years (I usually see a few every day), who have never had an accident. But that doesn't mean that it isn't dangerous. They have just been lucky.

The fact remains is that the instructor is in charge of the vehicle, and must be able to take control in an emergency. If they are distracted, then this could cause a delay in their reactions, which could lead to a collision.

Pc_Crash

The Road Vehicles (Construction and Use) (Amendment) (No. 4) Regulations 2003

Amendment of the Road Vehicles (Construction and Use) Regulations 1986

2. The Road Vehicles (Construction and Use) Regulations 1986(1) are amended by inserting after regulation 109—
“Mobile telephones

110.—(1) No person shall drive a motor vehicle on a road if he is using—
(a)a hand-held mobile telephone; or
(b)a hand-held device of a kind specified in paragraph (4).
(2) No person shall cause or permit any other person to drive a motor vehicle on a road while that other person is using—
(a)a hand-held mobile telephone; or
(b)a hand-held device of a kind specified in paragraph (4).
(3) No person shall supervise a holder of a provisional licence if the person supervising is using—
(a)a hand-held mobile telephone; or
(b)a hand-held device of a kind specified in paragraph (4),
at a time when the provisional licence holder is driving a motor vehicle on a road.
(4) A device referred to in paragraphs (1)(b), (2)(b) and (3)(b) is a device, other than a two-way radio, which performs an interactive communication function by transmitting and receiving data.
(5) A person does not contravene a provision of this regulation if, at the time of the alleged contravention—
(a)he is using the telephone or other device to call the police, fire, ambulance or other emergency service on 112 or 999;
(b)he is acting in response to a genuine emergency; and
(c)it is unsafe or impracticable for him to cease driving in order to make the call (or, in the case of an alleged contravention of paragraph (3)(b), for the provisional licence holder to cease driving while the call was being made).
(6) For the purposes of this regulation—
(a)a mobile telephone or other device is to be treated as hand-held if it is, or must be, held at some point during the course of making or receiving a call or performing any other interactive communication function;
(b)a person supervises the holder of a provisional licence if he does so pursuant to a condition imposed on that licence holder prescribed under section 97(3)(a) of the Road Traffic Act 1988 (grant of provisional licence);
(c)“interactive communication function” includes the following:
(i)sending or receiving oral or written messages;
(ii)sending or receiving facsimile documents;
(iii)sending or receiving still or moving images; and
(iv)providing access to the internet;
(d)“two-way radio” means any wireless telegraphy apparatus which is designed or adapted—
(i)for the purpose of transmitting and receiving spoken messages; and
(ii)to operate on any frequency other than 880 MHz to 915 MHz, 925 MHz to 960 MHz, 1710 MHz to 1785 MHz, 1805 MHz to 1880 MHz, 1900 MHz to 1980 MHz or 2110 MHz to 2170 MHz; and
(e)“wireless telegraphy” has the same meaning as in section 19(1) of the Wireless Telegraphy Act 1949(2).”
(1)
S.I. 1986/1078, to which there are amendments not relevant to these Regulations.

(2)
1949 c. 54.

Aretnap

Jamie_Carter wrote: »

As we all know, an instructor is in charge of the vehicle, and is covered by the same laws as if they were driving.

It's not as simple as that - there are plenty of requirements which apply to the driver but not to the supervisor... the supervisor does not have to be in a position to have proper control of the vehicle for example (how could he be?). In the case of mobile phones the supervisor can't use one because there's a specific clause in the legislation banning him from using one.

Jamie_Carter

WE are getting off topic, as the instructor wasn't using a hands free.

fart wrote: »

Nothing in the law that says you can't.

But it is against the law if you are distracted.

fart wrote: »

As i've previously mentioned, motorcycle instructors use radio to communicate with their learner riders.

And they use them to give clear and concise instructions, not to discuss a night out.

I too have to use a two way radio whilst driving. But only to receive or acknowledge messages. And only when I'm not having to concentrate hard on the situation.

fart wrote: »

So as nothing in the law says that hands free isn't allowed, i take it you'll be retracting this statement:
Because presumably you're concentrating on a phone call whether or not the use of your hand is involved? But how can that be! The law says talking without using a hand is fine!

See my sig.

But you can be prosecuted if the police believe that you are distracted by the phone call.

fart

Jamie_Carter wrote: »

But you can be prosecuted if the police believe that you are distracted by the phone call.

And here's another person on this site without basic comprehension skills.

You said the law states you can't use a phone because it's dangerous, and that it's dangerous because you're not giving it your full attention.

The law also states that you can do it whilst using a hands free.

Does this conversation somehow take up less of your concentration because you're not using an arm to hold a phone to your ear?

If you don't get what i'm saying then i won't bother responding any further.

Jamie_Carter

Aretnap wrote: »

It's not as simple as that - there are plenty of requirements which apply to the driver but not to the supervisor... the supervisor does not have to be in a position to have proper control of the vehicle for example (how could he be?). In the case of mobile phones the supervisor can't use one because there's a specific clause in the legislation banning him from using one.

Well it would only be possible for a supervisor to have proper control of the vehicle if they also had a steering wheel on the passenger side.

I don't know if you know this, but an HGV instructor doesn't have to wear a seat belt, so that they can reach across and grab the steering wheel if required.