disabled persons railcard

~Chameleon~

jacques_chirac wrote: »

He's not a new member

I think you'll find his name is Andy

P4ula

tokenfield wrote: »

well that flies in the face of logic!! So what you are saying is that if you were entitled to a disability Railcard back in say 1994 by virtue of a DLA award that lasted say 12 months, and provided that you continually renewed that card for the next 19 years, it would be legal and above board to continue to use it even if you have no current disabilities?

That to me says potential fraud. I'm off to write to the powers that be to bring this to their attention - that is abuse on a massive scale.

I handed back my Adult Disability Railcard back in 2004, after my DLA award went down from HRM & HRC to LRM. I could only apply for it again when I was re-awarded HRM & HRC in 2011.

I don't think it is fraud.

I think the paragraph you refer to is more that they have changed the rules for the railcard in that providing one qualifies to purchase the disabled railcard in the first place, then providing it is continually renewed, one retains a 'grandfather right' to the railcard.

If one doesn't renew then the 'grandfather right' is lost.

This does look a relatively recent change of the rules but is not fraud. You sent your railcard back under rules that were extant at the time. Those rules look to have now been amended to provide the aforementioned 'grandfather right'.

Paula

Pete268

P4ula wrote: »

I don't think it is fraud.

I think the paragraph you refer to is more that they have changed the rules for the railcard in that providing one qualifies to purchase the disabled railcard in the first place, then providing it is continually renewed, one retains a 'grandfather right' to the railcard.

If one doesn't renew then the 'grandfather right' is lost.

This does look a relatively recent change of the rules but is not fraud. You sent your railcard back under rules that were extant at the time. Those rules look to have now been amended to provide the aforementioned 'grandfather right'.

Paula

Yes that is how I read it, particularly in respect of DLA to PIP.

If one bought a railcard by virtue of their DLA award, providing they continually renew it, then it is irrelevant as to whether PIP is subsequently awarded or not.

As the poster above says, it does seem a change of the rules and rules can be changed. To the poster calling it fraud, it is hardly so. Illogical maybe, but not fraud.

Peter

tokenfield

P4ula wrote: »

I don't think it is fraud.

I think the paragraph you refer to is more that they have changed the rules for the railcard in that providing one qualifies to purchase the disabled railcard in the first place, then providing it is continually renewed, one retains a 'grandfather right' to the railcard.

If one doesn't renew then the 'grandfather right' is lost.

This does look a relatively recent change of the rules but is not fraud. You sent your railcard back under rules that were extant at the time. Those rules look to have now been amended to provide the aforementioned 'grandfather right'.

Paula

How on earth can you have 'grandfather rights' to a 'benefit' (the railcard) because at one time in the dim and distant past you were accepted as being disabled?

So effectively this can go on for years and years and at the same time be absolutely fit, healthy and have no disability at all?

For goodness sake surely not? No wonder the railways are having to put up their fares at such an alarming rate - they have customers getting a 30% reduction on their fares because for 12 months in 1994 they received DLA.

I wonder if the government may at some time in the future give 'grandfather rights' to every person who in their lifetime received say Council Tax Benefit, Housing Benefit or even DLA/PIP?

I will be interested to learn from National Rail just exactly what the current position is.

I've just a quick look at the terms and conditions - http://www.disabledpersons-railcard.co.uk/buy-a-railcard/railcard-terms-conditions

At section 15 it says that they may ask for current evidence of entitlement at renewal.
I would have expected that to say that they will.

15. When you renew your Railcard we may ask you for current evidence of your
entitlement to it – if we do, your renewal might take longer to process.

Still I want to know from them if it is fraudulent to use a railcard when you are aware that you have lost your entitlement to the relevant benefit during the validity of that card - in other words - you can no longer use it and it must be returned. Much the same as trying to use the NHS Exemption Card issued with WTC's when you know that you are no longer receiving WTC's or that your income breaches the exemption limit.

nannytone_2

i sent the application off today.
i find it odd that they require no photo ID
whats to stop anyone allowing other people to use it?

Pete268

tokenfield wrote: »

How on earth can you have 'grandfather rights' to a 'benefit' (the railcard) because at one time in the dim and distant past you were accepted as being disabled?

So effectively this can go on for years and years and at the same time be absolutely fit, healthy and have no disability at all?

For goodness sake surely not? No wonder the railways are having to put up their fares at such an alarming rate - they have customers getting a 30% reduction on their fares because for 12 months in 1994 they received DLA.

I wonder if the government may at some time in the future give 'grandfather rights' to every person who in their lifetime received say Council Tax Benefit, Housing Benefit or even DLA/PIP?

I will be interested to learn from National Rail just exactly what the current position is.

I've just a quick look at the terms and conditions - http://www.disabledpersons-railcard.co.uk/buy-a-railcard/railcard-terms-conditions

At section 15 it says that they may ask for current evidence of entitlement at renewal.
I would have expected that to say that they will.



Still I want to know from them if it is fraudulent to use a railcard when you are aware that you have lost your entitlement to the relevant benefit during the validity of that card - in other words - you can no longer use it and it must be returned. Much the same as trying to use the NHS Exemption Card issued with WTC's when you know that you are no longer receiving WTC's or that your income breaches the exemption limit.

But the Disabled Railcard is not a benefit (in the usual government meaning of a 'benefit' such as DLA, Tax Credits etc) It, like all railcards is a concession given by the franchised and open access rail operators under auspices of the Association of Train Operating Companies.

The issue and use of Disabled Persons Railcard being on behalf of ATOC (the privatised Franchised Operators and other rail operators such as Open Access Operators). It is those 'private' companies who in effect take the 'hit' for the railcard reductions, not the tax payer.

Although use of the railcard is subject to the National Conditions of Carriage (which are available on the National Rail Website for convenience) it is ATOC to whom you should address any grouse.

http://www.atoc.org/

Albeit they probably would not like to be seen to be withdrawing disabled peoples railcards. Very bad publicity that. Possibly hence why the situation is as it is.

Peter

tokenfield

nannytone wrote: »

i sent the application off today.
i find it odd that they require no photo ID
whats to stop anyone allowing other people to use it?

Nothing it seems

It has the potential to be a massive abuse scandal in the making.

shegar

jacques_chirac wrote: »

He's not a new member

Thats what we call relatively new 184.......

~Chameleon~

shegar wrote: »

Thats what we call relatively new 184.......

He meant he's been here for a very long time under numerous different aliases. He changes his account almost monthly

[Deleted User]

tokenfield wrote: »

Future proofs you from what?

If you are suggesting that you get one for 3 years and if during that three years you lose the qualifying benefit, you can carry on using it?

You can't.

As soon as you become ineligible by virtue of the lost benefit - you must NOT use the card - it should be destroyed.

If my thinking is correct you are suggesting that they can carry out an illegal act by using the card when you know that you are not entitled to it any longer.

Much the same as the Tax Credits NHS Exemption card - if you cease to be eligible you cannot use it even though it may have 10/11 months still to run.

explain how they would know...the card doesnt have your n.i number on it not even your address and you show it when buying the ticket and during the journey if asked
i`m not suggesting fraud but my understanding is that if you qualify when you buy the card you can benefit from it until it expires,after all its not the only rail card avaliable,and at the same price