Contemplating switching to all electricity

closed

Battleaxe44 wrote: »

7. We are going ahead with what we orginally planned..

Which is what?

What is wrong with the boiler and hot water tank?

vuvuzela

Battleaxe44 wrote: »

1. Istar, I am not ignoring you I went to bed...I have busy this morning speaking to several energy consultants.

2. I know what the costs are, I said we ARE contemplating.

3. break even point = Turbine, storage etc..there has to be a break point eventually.

4. My husband also believes in nuclear generated electricity. This was one of the fields of his expertise.

5. I really seem to have gotten under your skin with this. Aren't people allowed to have differing opinions how money can be saved eventually?
You say it wont be saved in the long run, on today's figures no it wont be, but future plans it could be saved.

6. The farm over from us, has saved money on gas fuel costs, by doing exactly as we are planning to do. Ours will be on a smaller scale.

7. We are going ahead with what we orginally planned..to you we are stupid..so be it. We are going to pay the standing charge for the gas, just in case we do sell, in fact when we rebuilt we have allowed for a gas connection in the kitchen in case a future buyer prefers gas. We will also leave the connection for the gas for the central heating.

Your post reads like you want to shout at me.

Thank you to everyone who has contributed to this thread, your comments have been taken on board and discussed with husband.

He is shocked at how some people have reacted to what we are planning to do.

We are thinking long term here and it appears, certain people do not want to think laterally.



I have requested that this thread be closed

3 - there will not be a break-even point. Stop hoping, as it just won't happen.

4 - I also believe in nuclear energy. It exists. However it will never be cheaper than gas, particularly if the new reactors go ahead with the massive price rises that the energy companies want to write into their contracts.

5 - 'could be'. However this is enormously unlikely, and certainly not in the foreseeable future, not even in the long-term.

7 - you will spend more money on your fuel bill by doing this. I really don't understand why you are ignoring all the points put forward by people who know what they are talking about. Your bills will rise (and possibly double) if you go all-electric for heating, that is a plain and simple fact.

8 - please don't throw your toys out of the pram when people don't agree with your point. The thread doesn't need to be closed at all, as it will hopefully help others in similar situations in the future decide that according to all the evidence, gas is cheaper to use as a heating source than electricity.

Battleaxe44

Good mornig Cardew,

I guess this is the wrong the Forum as you put it. For information we are on an acre of land Ex MOD housing, we are surrounded by farm land, each farmer has gone solar and wind turbine.

We know exactly what the generating capacity is for the turbine, otherwise this would not viable option.

In hindsight this venture could save a lot of money, but unless it is tried we will never know.

I realise there are some who are experts, I am an expert in my field, but I do not try to ram my opinions down someone's throat, without knowing the FULL story. Not that I would try that any way. I would gently suggest.

The way some people have reacted and tried to force their opinions on me I find quite disingenuous. I was going to make a subject remoark, I will refrain.

I agree short term, we will not be saving money, we will not recoup our outlay immediately, some say we will devalue our house, ex MOD or not, strangely though over the nine years I have owned this house it has tripled in value with all the modernisation. When we took out three wall to open plan the house, we were told we were mad, but the same people now are asking how much did it cost to convert and which builder did we use because they are now considering doing the same thing. We lucked in with this little house because of so much land, it is little to me but big by English standards (so my husband keeps telling me) . Subjective I know.

I will not posting any more on this thread. It has caused me a lot soul searching, the way people have reacted, thinking I am not listening to what they are saying. DH and I discussed every post long into the night and we do agree 3.7p againast 11.? p is the comparison used at present, consensus is it will be the same increase proportionally in the future, but what we are trying to do is offset one against the other, if we end up paying the same amout for a single fuel instead of duel fuel we have not lost any money, neither have we saved. If we end up paying more short term but in the future costs decrease then we will be saving.


I just hoped that some who had gone all electric from duel fuel had posted, it would have been a far more meaningful debate.

SerialRenter

Could you tell us what sort of generation capacity you're looking at?

In theory it would be ok to power your house with wind turbines, but i'm very much aware that home models tend to generate around 500w-2kW when the winds blowing.

Unfortunately that'll only cover use of about 0.5-2 heaters in your house, unless your putting many turbines in. Even with this effective discount to your energy bill, factoring in the turbine costs it's still going to be more expensive than using gas.

I'd say the investment would be better spent on a new high efficiency boiler.

By all means get a wind turbine too if you're in an effective area for it. It'll help reduce your electricity bill for other use such as lighting and televisions.

Using a turbine is in effect subsidising the cost you pay per unit so its reduced. The fact is this new average cost per unit would still be higher than 3.96p, especially when you consider the cost of a wind turbine too.

The best solution is to offload any task that can be completed with gas rather than electricity to a gas system (such as heating). then use renewable's if you so wish to reduce the electrical consumption for any remaining loads.

Source: I'm a Electrical Engineer who's had a massive electricity bill this year due to storage heaters.

ic

Battleaxe44 wrote: »

The windows are thos double glazed horrors and we have gone around sealed where we have noticed the draughts. These windows will be rpelaced in the next 18 months when we have saved the money to do this.

When you look into this, ask about triple glazed windows. I've just decided to have my windows that face a main road and the worse of the weather replaced with triple glazed. The cost over double glazed was about 20%. They'll unlikely pay for themselves, but will offer a lot more comfort as we sit under the windows (small living room, not much choice!). This article was useful and provides some comparisons between the past standards and current standards:

http://www.homebuilding.co.uk/advice/key-choices/green/triple-glazing

If you're insulating your loft DIY, you could also look to insulate your floors downstairs, assuming they're suspended timber. Its another cheap (if awkward and messy) quick win. I'll be doing this next time I decorate and replace the carpets.

http://www.energysavingtrust.org.uk/Insulation/Floor-insulation

lstar337

Battleaxe44 wrote: »

We know exactly what the generating capacity is for the turbine, otherwise this would not viable option.

Wind is unpredictable, how can you know?

Battleaxe44 wrote: »

I realise there are some who are experts, I am an expert in my field, but I do not try to ram my opinions down someone's throat, without knowing the FULL story. Not that I would try that any way. I would gently suggest.

The way some people have reacted and tried to force their opinions on me I find quite disingenuous. I was going to make a subject remoark, I will refrain.

I'm guessing that was aimed at me. I don't believe I have forced my opinions on you, just presented you with the current facts. Maybe in your opinion I have been forceful.

Battleaxe44 wrote: »

I agree short term, we will not be saving money, we will not recoup our outlay immediately, some say we will devalue our house, ex MOD or not, strangely though over the nine years I have owned this house it has tripled in value with all the modernisation.

All houses have increased in value in the last 9 years, that is the market. There is a shortage in the supply chain thanks to the flogging off of CH which were never replaced.

Battleaxe44 wrote: »

I will not posting any more on this thread. It has caused me a lot soul searching, the way people have reacted, thinking I am not listening to what they are saying. DH and I discussed every post long into the night and we do agree 3.7p againast 11.? p is the comparison used at present, consensus is it will be the same increase proportionally in the future, but what we are trying to do is offset one against the other, if we end up paying the same amout for a single fuel instead of duel fuel we have not lost any money, neither have we saved.

How can you post the above, and come to the conclusion below?

Battleaxe44 wrote: »

If we end up paying more short term but in the future costs decrease then we will be saving.

Battleaxe44 wrote: »

I just hoped that some who had gone all electric from duel fuel had posted, it would have been a far more meaningful debate.

Sorry, but it is such a bad idea, that nobody who wants to save money would ever entertain it.

lstar337

Since we have all agreed that electric is three times the cost of gas, if you want to break even, which you seem to.

You need to get 2/3 of your units for free. If you can do that (or better) with wind and solar (I really don't think you can with just wind), then you might break even. But you need to factor in hours that the sun is down, and when the wind doesn't blow.

I still think you should stick with gas, get solar PV and the turbine, and use the feed in tariff to subsidise your gas bill. That would be the smart move. That way your generated electricity pays for your gas for you.

SerialRenter

lstar337 wrote: »

Since we have all agreed that electric is three times the cost of gas, if you want to break even, which you seem to.

You need to get 2/3 of your units for free. If you can do that (or better) with wind and solar (I really don't think you can with just wind), then you might break even. But you need to factor in hours that the sun is down, and when the wind doesn't blow.

I still think you should stick with gas, get solar PV and the turbine, and use the feed in tariff to subsidise your gas bill. That would be the smart move. That way your generated electricity pays for your gas for you.

This. +1

Plus factor in the cost of repaying of the generation with the profits of reducing your bills.

New boiler + substitutable generation + sell back to the grid = happy face.

Cardew

Battleaxe44 wrote: »

DH and I discussed every post long into the night and we do agree 3.7p againast 11.? p is the comparison used at present, consensus is it will be the same increase proportionally in the future, but what we are trying to do is offset one against the other, if we end up paying the same amout for a single fuel instead of duel fuel we have not lost any money, neither have we saved. If we end up paying more short term but in the future costs decrease then we will be saving.


I just hoped that some who had gone all electric from duel fuel had posted, it would have been a far more meaningful debate.

If your theory that, in the long term, electricity prices will come closer to gas* had substance, then I could understand someone with no form of heating having a decision to make about heating.

However there can be absolutely no doubt that at present it is a no contest with gas winning hands down in terms of running costs.

You have gas CH installed, yet are apparently going to stop using that gas CH and install electrical heaters in the hope that your theory of cheaper electricity in the future comes to pass soon.

Surely you should continue using gas until such time that your theory becomes reality?

* IMO there is absolutely no evidence to support your theory of electricity prices coming meaningfully closer to gas prices; in fact just the opposite.

Surely you have heard about gas production by 'Fracking' in the USA/Canada?

Some years ago I prepared a report(I am an electrical engineer) for my Condo association in the USA on heating methods for a large swimming pool. After taking advice from various Government/State agencies we decided to change heating from gas to electricity by heat pumps(solar wasn't an option). The savings were huge.

Now gas prices in the USA are about 25% of the price in 2008 see http://www.indexmundi.com/commodities/?commodity=natural-gas&months=60

and we are contemplating switching back to gas!!

IMO despite the NIMBY objections, fracking in UK and Europe is inevitable and will lead to lower gas prices in the long term. Russia will have to then cut prices and the USA are contemplating large scale exports of gas.

macman

Battleaxe44 wrote: »

Thank you macman, we agree there is no issue here as we are under the average consumption rate.

I was concerned about the abnormally high gas bill for the December - February quarter. I am no longer concerned as I believe it is a glitch and as someone else suggested we went from an imperial meter to a metric meter. One of the reasons for the jump.

We have also found out there is a probem with the boiler and the storage tank for the hot water, amazing what 24 hours reveals,. The technical explanation and readings confirm this. DH has thought this for some time.

We are also replacing the double glazed windows with triple glazing in preparation for the winter. it might be overkill for some, but this is our decision and our savings.

We will be two oldies as snug as bugs in rug... well hopefully. If Istar's predictions are right, we might end up poor, make the energy company money time will tell.

No, a meter change does not alter your kWh consumption at all! How could it? All that alters is the billing formula used to produce the kWh total from the volume measured by the meter.
The reason people want to SHOUT at you is to deter you from making a very expensive mistake, based on complete irrationality. You still haven't explained how any form of electric heating can be cheaper per kWh than gas, now or in the future?
Given that your house is presumably quite large and 'high end', ripping out gas CH and DHW will probably make it unsaleable. However well insulated it is, your utility bills will go from £1K to £2.5K or more.