£1.50 text charge?????

loboexe

Here is an update to what I have tracked down so far with addresses and phone numbers to help anybody else.

From my current provider (having moved from Orange now) I got the phone number of Dialog Communications 087007002211 and 08700790400. They basically passed the buck and only provide a service other companies that provide mobile services. They gave me the number of the company they say asked them to send me the service. A company called Invomo on 08448888500

I have written to Dialog requesting copies of any documents and system logs etc that they can provide relating to my phone and Hootie19's (my wife) phone and any personal details they hold on us. I have also requested that they remove out details from any database they hold and write to me that this is done or explain why they are unable to do this.

As a note they were not rude but did not go out of their way to help either and quoted the "it's not us guv, it's our customers" defense.

I called Invomo. They were a little more helpful took down my details and said they would look into it and call me back. I suspected I might be getting fobbed off but they did call me back. They are willing to send me copies of all the records they have of texts sent and received form our numbers but we first have to provide proof that we own the phones by sending in copied of the bills. I guess this is not an unreasonable request in todays terms but it will slow down any resolution.

They did "Blacklist" our phones for us on the spot and agree to send us confirmation in writing that that had been done. The address for them is,

The Coach House
Heywood House
Westbury
Wiltshire
BA13 4NA

They have a web site http://www.invomo.com
The lady I spoke to said the so called Game Credits that I had signed up for were from a company called Cat Games, she was unwilling to pass on the details for this without talking to her manager. I am going to call her back later to see if this has been approved.

In the mean time a Google search for Cat Games has reveled only one candidate but the numbers do not appear to be valid.

I would suggest that anybody else having problems with text services from 84010 contact Invomo also

loboexe

reddwarf2002 wrote: »

I know this might sound unhelpful and accusing but could there be any possibility that your teens are actually sending these messages as it is unthinkable that this company is able to hack into Orange's billing system and making it appear as a text has been sent?! It would also explain why you haven't been receiving the texts as kids being kids would delete the received text! I can understand the company being able to (scam you and) charge for the reverse text which would then get added by Orange on your bill as a RECEIVED text but I can't think of any way for the SENT text to be added by this company too.

It looks like there might be a tenuous link to a football web site that my eldest son uses as a game on the web site is listed as being from the same company I was told the credits were for; Cat Games.

However the text to and from our mobiles come at all sorts of days of the week, times of day etc so while it is remotely possible he sent some of them he can not have sent them all. He also swears blind he has not sent any text from any phone as he is well aware of the costs and he is computer smart (as an IT professional I have been restrictive on the use of and anal about warning all my kids about computer / mobile security) but having scanned the web site there are a number of possibilities on the site to get "duped" into sending in contact details, and it only takes one to get you onto their database

There also a distinct lack of phone number, address etc to contact anybody, always a bad sign. In their T&C's there is no mention of a recurring charge only that you can purchase games credits as a one off transaction via a land line, mobile or credit card. This also does not exactly fit the pattern of text to and from 84010 that my wife and I have received.

The T&C's do mention that you must have permission to use the phone to buy credits it does not say what will happen if it turns out that you do not have permission. Is there anybody with a legal hat that can explain what may happen in if the person does not have the permission to use the phone ?

If I get contact details I shall post them on this site.

Intasun32

Do not send these companies any personal documents as this can only make matters worse.

From my own dealings with Dialogue Communications there is a very good chance that you are not the only victim of the receiving of unsolicited reverse bill texts. These companies send out these scam texts by the thousands.

When you talk to them on their 0870 number paying 12p per minute they will swear you have subscribed. They will have used random dialling progs to generate numbers and as in my case they will have purchased customer lists from other companies who defy data protection laws and sell our details.

Go to the PhonePayPlus, the Premium Rate Industry Regulator, web site and either make an online complaint or call them. They are not the easiest to deal with, as PP+ are an industry self regulated body, hence the bias towards the scammers. Even so make a complaint and inform Dialogue and Invomo what you are doing.

Don't leave Orange alone, contact them and ask, no demand, all info including dates and times of all incoming and outgoing texts for 84010. Google this 84010 and Dialogue Communications you will be shocked how much info will come up. They have a chequered history.

* Note to Hootie19: If you want to read about the recent history of 84010 Dialogue Comms look at this thread :
http://www.the-scream.co.uk/forums/t21290.html?

wantmemoney

loboexe wrote:

I was given a number for Dialog Communications 08707002211 and called them. They were helpful-ish but would not accept that I was not doing something that would "sign up for" these massages but were willing to stop them, however they were not the user of this short code, that was one of their clients. So they said they would have to contact the "client" to get them stopped.

They told me the company that they were dealing with was called PNC and gave me a number 0870 707070. I called this number and surprise surprise they are not the holders of the short code 84010 it is one of their clients. I am currently waiting for them to call me back, I will give them a couple of hours and then chase.

In the mean time who can I report this fraud to ? the more the better.

the chain:
Network Operator:
Orange (have the revenue share billing agreement with the Service Providers )

Service Providers:
Dialogue Communications (they supply 84010 shortcode)
PNC (they registered INVOMO.COM)

http://whois.domaintools.com/invomo.com
Registrant:
PNC Telecom Services Ltd
Cavallino House
Corsley Heath
Warminster, Wiltshire BA12 7PL
GB

Domain name: INVOMO.COM

Administrative Contact:
Wiley, Nick
Cavallino House
Corsley Heath
Warminster, Wiltshire BA12 7PL
GB
+44.8700707070

http://www.answers.com/topic/band-x-limited?cat=biz-fin
Invomo Ltd.
130 City Rd.
London EC1V 2NW, United Kingdom
Tel. +44-844-88-88-500
Fax +44-844-88 88-700

The company was formed in late 2007 following the acquisitions of Band-X and PNC Telecom.

Officers:
Strategy and Development Director: Andrew (Andy) Jones
Commercial Director: Neil MacGowan
CEO: Nick Wiley

the Service Providers (PNC) will claim the responsibility lies with the 'Content Provider' (it's possible they are the 'content providers')
Have none of it. Your customer agreement is with Orange and Orange alone.

alex99

loboexe wrote: »

It looks like there might be a tenuous link to a football web site that my eldest son uses as a game on the web site is listed as being from the same company I was told the credits were for; Cat Games.

However the text to and from our mobiles come at all sorts of days of the week, times of day etc so while it is remotely possible he sent some of them he can not have sent them all. He also swears blind he has not sent any text from any phone as he is well aware of the costs and he is computer smart (as an IT professional I have been restrictive on the use of and anal about warning all my kids about computer / mobile security) but having scanned the web site there are a number of possibilities on the site to get "duped" into sending in contact details, and it only takes one to get you onto their database

There also a distinct lack of phone number, address etc to contact anybody, always a bad sign. In their T&C's there is no mention of a recurring charge only that you can purchase games credits as a one off transaction via a land line, mobile or credit card. This also does not exactly fit the pattern of text to and from 84010 that my wife and I have received.

The T&C's do mention that you must have permission to use the phone to buy credits it does not say what will happen if it turns out that you do not have permission. Is there anybody with a legal hat that can explain what may happen in if the person does not have the permission to use the phone ?

If I get contact details I shall post them on this site.

Your story is very worrying indeed.

There is nothing unusual about receiving (even if you don't actually get them) unsolicited reverse charge messages from the companies which have been mentioned. This is, by and large, how these companies make money. You can and should report them to PhonePayPlus (who will issue a token fine) and insist (as others have suggested) that Orange refund you - you will need to be patient and persistent and to stand your ground; but, rest assured, the slightest threat of court action and Orange will capitulate.

But you are claiming (as have some others on this and other sites) that you are being charged for messages that you have not sent. Normally victims of unsolicited reverse charge spam who get itemized bills are able to prove they did not subscribe. The fake subscription "logs" produced by the likes of Dialogue and their shadowy "clients" do not match the bills. In your case, however, your bills would appear to show that you sent the messages.

Your only course of action, as far as I can see, is to find out where (nearest base station) your phone was when the messages from your phone were supposedly sent. Orange do (ultimately) have access to this sort of data as they can be required to produce it by the police. If you can show that you and your phone were elsewhere (e.g. you made a call from 200 miles away 2 minutes later) then you have proof that something extremely sinister is going on.

I hope you will pursue this and keep posting on what you discover. Your case is potentially of huge significance.

reddwarf2002

The only other thing that could have done this is either a virus which could be on your phone (usually smart-phones are prone to this) or if someone has managed to hack into your phone using bluetooth (need to make sure that bluetooth is off at all times!).

redux

About a different company, which I won't name, about a year ago, and in reply to some reported claims mentioned above, that phones simply don't get sent unsolicited messages.

On my Orange phone, I received a service message with a link to download a file with a name relating to a recent film, as if fulfilling an order.

I've never subscribed to any such services, and I worried that these might have been charged. Orange said that nothing appeared on my bill so far ...
I contacted ICSTIS, who gave me contact details for the company. Their customer services promised that my number would be removed

I got more messages, none charged thankfully, and the company insisted my number had been removed. After another couple of messages, I demanded that someone technical in the firm contact me back.

He suggested that on Orange, some people had a second number, used for data services. Yes, in fact I have an Orange Fax number, bought for a one-off fee, not used much. He found and removed this from their database, and I've had no problem since.

It's absolutely impossible for this fax receive number to send sms messages or originate anything else (though it would receive sms when I tried it recently). The only way I can access the answer fax service is to call Orange answerphone and go the the fax option in the menu, and the only times I've ever given people the number was for example so that a reputable company like 3m could send me a couple of product datasheets.

This company did not know how my number got on their list, and overall were quite helpful and sympathetic. But obviously not all companies are. I suspect someone ordered the stuff on the website and couldn't remember their own number.

alex99

reddwarf2002 wrote: »

The only other thing that could have done this is either a virus which could be on your phone (usually smart-phones are prone to this) or if someone has managed to hack into your phone using bluetooth (need to make sure that bluetooth is off at all times!).

I don't buy either of these explanations in this case.

If you bluejack someone else's phone, you may be able to access their data. I'm not sure you could make calls from the jacked phone. In any case, you would need to stay in 30M range over an extended period of time to make a series of calls.

Mobile phone viruses are still very primitive and all the ones I have heard of are spread by bluetooth. I really don't think there are any that could send SMS and delete the sent copies. In any case, for the author to profit from this, he would have to write a virus that sent SMS to his own premium rate number - which would be a bit of a give-away.

If people really are being charged for sending messages which they have not sent (cf just accidentally connecting to a WAP site or whatever) then this must be some kind of network attack - which would be a much more worrying prospect than the much heralded phone virus.

alex99

loboexe wrote: »

I called Invomo. They were a little more helpful took down my details and said they would look into it and call me back. I suspected I might be getting fobbed off but they did call me back. They are willing to send me copies of all the records they have of texts sent and received form our numbers but we first have to provide proof that we own the phones by sending in copied of the bills. I guess this is not an unreasonable request in todays terms but it will slow down any resolution.

Be very careful dealing with Invomo (AKA PNC)! They appear (under their new name) in the very latest PhonePayPlus adjudications as the network providers for a serious scam. All premium rate firms should be treated with a great deal of suspicion.

If they will not provide "sign up" details, you should simply get back on to Orange and demand that they chase up and down the "value chain" for this.

NB the short code 84010 was used for sending unsolicited reverse charge "jokes" through Dialogue from a company notionally based in the BVI. Dialogue Communications were banned by PhonePayPlus from continuing with this "service" and their friends in the BVI have now switched to WAP "services" rather than SMS "jokes".

I suspect that you are not receiving the stuff you have been charged for because this is WAP and you phone is not WAP enabled. This does not, however, explain why you are being charged for messages which you have not sent.

If this is what is really happening, it would be really really good to know.

alex99

miss_vicki wrote: »

You must text STOP ALL to the 84010!
Orange can't stop them from there end, it's nothing to do with them, its the third party charging you, your need to go to them to get your money back not orange. third party texts charge from 10p to £2.50.

Sorry, but you are misinformed.

Orange CAN stop this stuff and it IS a great deal to do with them.

Orange could allow its customers to block all incoming premium rate texts. Orange refuse to allow their customers to do this for the simple reason that Orange make millions and millions of pounds from the 35Ps which they get from each reverse charge text sent by the scammers.

Orange know that the premium rate firms with whom they deal are crooks, but choose to continue to do business with them anyway. BTW, Orange is nothing special here, all the main networks are in this - although one of them (T-mobile) will allow its customers to block this stuff if you really pester them. All the networks have been warned by the police that this behaviour is unacceptable but, so far, they have taken no notice.