PCN from private company which work paid. Can work ask me to pay it?

Custard_Pie

goonarmy wrote: »

This is not a fake ticket.

Impossible.

You need to know the difference between a fine and a penalty charge notice. Do you have any of the info ive asked for?

It IS a fake fine. It's a request for monies that is purposely made to look like an official parking fine that the Police an Local Councils issue. PPC are on record as saying they are not invoices as there is no VAT number and thus, they are exempt from paying VAT on monies received. So, it's a claim for monies due to breach of contract. Do they say "breach of contract?" Do they even mention contract in their correspondence? No, of course not, because it's easier to sail as close to the wind as legally possible into duping people into thinking that they have received a parking fine. If it's a police one then people know that they could land up in criminal court.

So, now try and convince me that this is NOT a fake fine....

Coupon-mad

goonarmy wrote: »

This is not a fake ticket.

Impossible.

You need to know the difference between a fine and a penalty charge notice. Do you have any of the info ive asked for?

I think you might be misunderstanding us? We do know the difference between a PENALTY CHARGE NOTICE and a PARKING CHARGE NOTICE. You have the latter, from a scumbag private rip-off company, impersonating a 'real' parking ticket.

It is no such thing, not a parking ticket at all - it is merely an invoice impersonating a parking ticket by copying the acronym and appearance of a real Council one - and we call them 'fake PCNs' on here.

goonarmy

Custard_Pie wrote: »

It IS a fake fine. It's a request for monies that is purposely made to look like an official parking fine that the Police an Local Councils issue. PPC are on record as saying they are not invoices as there is no VAT number and thus, they are exempt from paying VAT on monies received. So, it's a claim for monies due to breach of contract. Do they say "breach of contract?" Do they even mention contract in their correspondence? No, of course not, because it's easier to sail as close to the wind as legally possible into duping people into thinking that they have received a parking fine. If it's a police one then people know that they could land up in criminal court.

So, now try and convince me that this is NOT a fake fine....

Do you have any idea what this looks like? No. Didnt think so. Its actually a letter. Not pretending to be anything else. They may well do mention contract but again you havent seen it so irrelevent. And the contract in question is not binding cos it dont exist. Again irrelevant and not the info requested. The word fine doesnt appear anywhere. So the fake fine bit debatable-bu id prefer you didnt. Charge. Now that is mentioned. And thats what this is...

goonarmy

Coupon-mad wrote: »

I think you might be misunderstanding us? We do know the difference between a PENALTY CHARGE NOTICE and a PARKING CHARGE NOTICE. You have the latter, from a scumbag private rip-off company, impersonating a 'real' parking ticket.

It is no such thing, not a parking ticket at all - it is merely an invoice impersonating a parking ticket by copying the acronym and appearance of a real Council one - and we call them 'fake PCNs' on here.

again i refer you to post #14. This is not impersinating a council ticket at all. As you havent seen it you would know that.
Again, doe anyone have the info requested?

zzzLazyDaisy

goonarmy wrote: »

again i refer you to post #14. This is not impersinating a council ticket at all. As you havent seen it you would know that.
Again, doe anyone have the info requested?

The info you requested was

'can my employer deduct money from my wages to reimburse them for the money they've paid for the parking charge'

The short answer is

'check your contract'

The slightly longer answer is, if there is something in the company car policy that says they will pay parking tickets on your behalf and you will reimburse them, then even without a deductions clause, they can still demand the money from you and they can still take you to court. By that point the issue of whether the parking charge is real or fake is something of a red herring, what matters is that you, in having the company car, you agreed to the terms and conditions of the company car policy.

Of course nissing your employer off enough to force them into taking court proceedings against you is probably not a good career move.

goonarmy

zzzLazyDaisy wrote: »

The info you requested was

'can my employer deduct money from my wages to reimburse them for the money they've paid for the parking charge'

The short answer is

'check your contract'

The slightly longer answer is, if there is something in the company car policy that says they will pay parking tickets on your behalf and you will reimburse them, then even without a deductions clause, they can still demand the money from you and they can still take you to court. By that point the issue of whether the parking charge is real or fake is something of a red herring, what matters is that you, in having the company car, you agreed to the terms and conditions of the company car policy.

Of course nissing your employer off enough to force them into taking court proceedings against you is probably not a good career move.

That i suspect is the difinitive answer and , agreed the debate on fines, charges and contracts is irrelevent. Now the firm, being quite sizable (circa €4billion euro) have a fairly decent legal team. And them paying the fine up front and then asking for my permission for reimbursement strikes me as odd. They have removed my right to appeal and assumed "guilt". The van drivers on the firm have to pay their own tickets and also have a handling charge added by the lease hire company which is deducted without written consent as i assume it is taken care of by some coverall document.also googleing gave me an answer which i was looking to confirm.

zzzLazyDaisy

goonarmy wrote: »

That i suspect is the difinitive answer and , agreed the debate on fines, charges and contracts is irrelevent. Now the firm, being quite sizable (circa €4billion euro) have a fairly decent legal team. And them paying the fine up front and then asking for my permission for reimbursement strikes me as odd. They have removed my right to appeal and assumed "guilt". The van drivers on the firm have to pay their own tickets and also have a handling charge added by the lease hire company which is deducted without written consent as i assume it is taken care of by some coverall document.also googleing gave me an answer which i was looking to confirm.

The arrangements with the van drivers concerning the contract with the lease hire company will be very specific and will almost certainly be set out in a policy and procedure document.

The arrangements with you concerning the company car and any t&cs should similarly be set out somewhere, and you should have a copy (or it should be freely available, eg on the company intranet).

Clearly posters on a forum can only provide general information. We cannot comment specifically on the contractual arrangements you have with your employer as we are not privy to that information.

I would suggest that you contact the HR dept / your manager / the CEO /whoever seems to be the most appropriate person and explain that you do not agree that they had the right to make the payment on your behalf, which has denied you the opportunity to appeal against the parking charge, and since you don't accept that you owe them the money, you also do not consent to them deducting the money from your salary. Tell them if they have documentary evidence of you agreeing to any of this, they should provide you with a copy and you will re-consider your position.

This might not make you popular, but that's the risk you take.

One other thing - you don't say how long you have been employed with the company, but if you started on or after 6th April 2012, be aware that as you are within your first two years' of service, the employer can dismiss you for any/no reason and you have no right to make a complaint to a tribunal for unfair dismissal. (There is an exception for reasons related to protected characteristics, but falling out over the payment of a parking charge does not fall into that category).

goonarmy

zzzLazyDaisy wrote: »

The arrangements with the van drivers concerning the contract with the lease hire company will be very specific and will almost certainly be set out in a policy and procedure document.

The arrangements with you concerning the company car and any t&cs should similarly be set out somewhere, and you should have a copy (or it should be freely available, eg on the company intranet).

Clearly posters on a forum can only provide general information. We cannot comment specifically on the contractual arrangements you have with your employer as we are not privy to that information.

I would suggest that you contact the HR dept / your manager / the CEO /whoever seems to be the most appropriate person and explain that you do not agree that they had the right to make the payment on your behalf, which has denied you the opportunity to appeal against the parking charge, and since you don't accept that you owe them the money, you also do not consent to them deducting the money from your salary. Tell them if they have documentary evidence of you agreeing to any of this, they should provide you with a copy and you will re-consider your position.

This might not make you popular, but that's the risk you take.

One other thing - you don't say how long you have been employed with the company, but if you started on or after 6th April 2012, be aware that as you are within your first two years' of service, the employer can dismiss you for any/no reason and you have no right to make a complaint to a tribunal for unfair dismissal. (There is an exception for reasons related to protected characteristics, but falling out over the payment of a parking charge does not fall into that category).

Dismisal is no a problem, they seem to like me and there hasnt been an issue about theis as of yet. Also 45 quid aint worth losing a job paying 32 k just strikes me as odd, everything else seems bolted down water tight. And me ignoreing them either due to work commitments or otherwise has prevented them collecting the monies thus far.
Next time im in the office i will be checking but wanted a heads up from here first.

nigelbb

Your company policy may well be in line with car rental companies who have T&Cs in the contract that you will be responsible for fines & penalties i.e. official parking fines & thus by exclusion not responsible for private parking charges.

What your company should have done is name you as the driver & let you sort it out by appealing to the PPC. Are you still in time to appeal? Even though the 'fine' has been paid you can still appeal & POPLA can force the PPC to repay if your appeal is upheld.

goonarmy

nigelbb wrote: »

Your company policy may well be in line with car rental companies who have T&Cs in the contract that you will be responsible for fines & penalties i.e. official parking fines & thus by exclusion not responsible for private parking charges.

What your company should have done is name you as the driver & let you sort it out by appealing to the PPC. Are you still in time to appeal? Even though the 'fine' has been paid you can still appeal & POPLA can force the PPC to repay if your appeal is upheld.

Yes agree totally. Thats what they should have done. They do do this with congestion fines and it was what i would have expected-again leading me to think they might have dropped a b$#@*?k. Still ill check.