Compensation for delayed flights Discussion Area

Caz3121

brig001 said:

We flew from Manchester to Kuala Lumpur via Dubai
Our Manchester flight was delayed by an hour, so we missed our connecting flight. We were given a later flight, but landed over five hours later than we should have. I'm trying to apply for compensation, but can't figure out how to do it on the Emirates we site
Can anyone advise please?
Thanks, Brian

were you given a reason for the delay on the first flight? this will determine whether you have a claim
If it was weather, air traffic restrictions etc - no claim. If it was a technical problem with the plane then possible claim.

Gareth22

Hi all, 

Our flight from Gatwick to Copenhagen was cancelled with approx 4 hours' notice. We found a replacement flight via Norway which got us there >2 hours' late. 

I submitted a compensation claim directly with Norwegian, who have refused the claim on the basis that the reason was "damage to the aircraft door" without providing any further details. 

I've no idea whether this genuinely counts as 'extraordinary circumstances', but am curious to know whether you'd consider escalating?

Thanks! 

eskbanker

Gareth22 said:

Hi all, 

Our flight from Gatwick to Copenhagen was cancelled with approx 4 hours' notice. We found a replacement flight via Norway which got us there >2 hours' late. 

I submitted a compensation claim directly with Norwegian, who have refused the claim on the basis that the reason was "damage to the aircraft door" without providing any further details. 

I've no idea whether this genuinely counts as 'extraordinary circumstances', but am curious to know whether you'd consider escalating?

Thanks! 

Impossible to say whether it would count as extraordinary circumstances without knowing more detail about who or what damaged the aircraft door, i.e. the extent to which it would be deemed to be within the airline's control.  You'd need to start by asking them, although might find that they're reluctant to comment further, in which case you'd need to ascertain if they offer any ADR options or try the CAA.

Perhaps worth noting though that case law (Siewert and Other -v- Condor Fulgienst (Case C-394/14)) determined that damage caused by mobile steps wasn't considered to be extraordinary circumstances:

"Article 5(3) of Regulation No 261/2004 must be interpreted as meaning that a situation where, as in in the case before the referring court, an airport’s set of mobile boarding stairs collides with an aircraft cannot be categorised as ‘extraordinary circumstances’ exempting the air carrier from its obligation to pay the passengers compensation in the event of a long delay to a flight operated by that aircraft."

Gareth22

eskbanker said:

Gareth22 said:

Hi all, 

Our flight from Gatwick to Copenhagen was cancelled with approx 4 hours' notice. We found a replacement flight via Norway which got us there >2 hours' late. 

I submitted a compensation claim directly with Norwegian, who have refused the claim on the basis that the reason was "damage to the aircraft door" without providing any further details. 

I've no idea whether this genuinely counts as 'extraordinary circumstances', but am curious to know whether you'd consider escalating?

Thanks! 

Impossible to say whether it would count as extraordinary circumstances without knowing more detail about who or what damaged the aircraft door, i.e. the extent to which it would be deemed to be within the airline's control.  You'd need to start by asking them, although might find that they're reluctant to comment further, in which case you'd need to ascertain if they offer any ADR options or try the CAA.

Perhaps worth noting though that case law (Siewert and Other -v- Condor Fulgienst (Case C-394/14)) determined that damage caused by mobile steps wasn't considered to be extraordinary circumstances:

"Article 5(3) of Regulation No 261/2004 must be interpreted as meaning that a situation where, as in in the case before the referring court, an airport’s set of mobile boarding stairs collides with an aircraft cannot be categorised as ‘extraordinary circumstances’ exempting the air carrier from its obligation to pay the passengers compensation in the event of a long delay to a flight operated by that aircraft."

Thanks very much. I did ask them yesterday, but as you said they refused to give any further detail. 

I've escalated to the CAA in any case. 

Appreciate the reply. 

brig001

Caz3121 said:

brig001 said:

We flew from Manchester to Kuala Lumpur via Dubai
Our Manchester flight was delayed by an hour, so we missed our connecting flight. We were given a later flight, but landed over five hours later than we should have. I'm trying to apply for compensation, but can't figure out how to do it on the Emirates we site
Can anyone advise please?
Thanks, Brian

were you given a reason for the delay on the first flight? this will determine whether you have a claim
If it was weather, air traffic restrictions etc - no claim. If it was a technical problem with the plane then possible claim.

I believe it was a problem with the plane's aircon so should be OK

Gareth22

eskbanker said:

Gareth22 said:

Hi all, 

Our flight from Gatwick to Copenhagen was cancelled with approx 4 hours' notice. We found a replacement flight via Norway which got us there >2 hours' late. 

I submitted a compensation claim directly with Norwegian, who have refused the claim on the basis that the reason was "damage to the aircraft door" without providing any further details. 

I've no idea whether this genuinely counts as 'extraordinary circumstances', but am curious to know whether you'd consider escalating?

Thanks! 

Impossible to say whether it would count as extraordinary circumstances without knowing more detail about who or what damaged the aircraft door, i.e. the extent to which it would be deemed to be within the airline's control.  You'd need to start by asking them, although might find that they're reluctant to comment further, in which case you'd need to ascertain if they offer any ADR options or try the CAA.

Perhaps worth noting though that case law (Siewert and Other -v- Condor Fulgienst (Case C-394/14)) determined that damage caused by mobile steps wasn't considered to be extraordinary circumstances:

"Article 5(3) of Regulation No 261/2004 must be interpreted as meaning that a situation where, as in in the case before the referring court, an airport’s set of mobile boarding stairs collides with an aircraft cannot be categorised as ‘extraordinary circumstances’ exempting the air carrier from its obligation to pay the passengers compensation in the event of a long delay to a flight operated by that aircraft."

Update to this: I raised this with the CAA who emailed this morning telling me that they've contacted Nowegian for further information. Less than an hour later, Norwegian emailed me: "After reviewing this case and its supporting documents, we have decided to accommodate the claim for EU compensation". 

It's good to know it was worth chasing. Thanks for your input. 

ronpickering

Hi all

Debut post so be gentle.  On Saturday 27th September we were due to fly back from Barcelona to Manchester by EasyJet on the 11:10 flight EZY2002, we woke up at 7am to discover two emails sent circa 2am, the first was to say our flight had been cancelled  with no reason given and the second to say it had been rescheduled for the following day (28th) at 22:30.  The second email referred to any flight delayed and rescheduled to a different delay would mean they would seek to find us hotel accommodation and to check my inbox for such information, no email was ever sent and nothing to help us find accommodation was available on the app or any other source.

Consequently we had to find accommodation at short notice and considerable expense plus all the expenses necessary for the 36 hour delay which ensued.  I immediately filed a claim for compensation with the EC Regulation 261/2004 template, I fairly swiftly received a response saying there was a "system failure" which was classified as extraordinary circumstances and consequently the claim was dismissed.  I wasn't happy with this response so sent a separate email having found the email addresses of 4 senior execs within EJ including the Chief Customer Officer and the Head of Operations and disruptions, less than 4 hours later a lady from EJ support rang me in acknowledgement, took details on what had happened and advised I wait 7/14 days before filing another case, in the meantime suggesting I send a submission for reimbursement which I did....she sent an email confirming this with a case number and clarifying my submission for expenses was separate to any compensation claim.

Since then I have received two separate emails from EJ support both rejecting claim for compensation, the first saying "the delay was caused by a system failure, we’ve looked into your concerns about whether this is considered a technical fault. The delay happened because our aircraft was out of position after earlier delays in Berlin (BER). This was due to the IT outage, which meant the flight from Berlin left after curfew. Under the regulation, this is considered an extraordinary reason, so we’re unable to honour requests for compensation"  I replied again reiterating I wasn't satisfied with this response and would seek ADR escalation.  

I received a further email this morning with the following....

"Following a thorough review of your case, we can confirm that the flight was cancelled due to system failure, which has been classified as an extraordinary circumstance. While this classification affects eligibility for standard EU261 compensation, we remain committed to reimbursing reasonable expenses incurred as a result of the disruption.  In accordance with the EU261/2004 Regulation, once you have selected one of the available options such as a refund or re-routing your contractual agreement with easyJet in relation to that specific disruption is considered concluded.  Therefore, having opted for the re-routing, you will no longer eligible to claim expenses related to the alternative carrier or benefits associated with the alternative options. As previously communicated, we will confirm this with the call listening. Please allow 7 days for the feedback to be provided to you"

I'm now utterly confused as well as increasingly angry as this seems to imply I'm now not even eligible for expenses...........I never sought a refund or re-route, our flight was rescheduled and we took it.  Any help or advice would be appreciated in particular as to whether i should now go straight to ADR.

Thanks in advance

eskbanker

ronpickering said:

Consequently we had to find accommodation at short notice and considerable expense plus all the expenses necessary for the 36 hour delay which ensued.

[...]

I'm now utterly confused as well as increasingly angry as this seems to imply I'm now not even eligible for expenses...........I never sought a refund or re-route, our flight was rescheduled and we took it.  Any help or advice would be appreciated in particular as to whether i should now go straight to ADR.

What exactly is in your claim for expenses?  Their obligations are clearly spelt out in article 9 of the regulations, which is mirrored within their passenger rights document, i.e. hotel with transportation plus reasonable meal costs.

You're not eligible for compensation if the root cause was extraordinary circumstances so may have muddied the water by claiming for that initially, but as they've pointed out, expenses are a separate matter ("we remain committed to reimbursing reasonable expenses incurred as a result of the disruption").

ronpickering

Hi and thanks for the response, the expenses are for the hotel we had to pay for, meals, drink and transport.  I filed for compensation based on the advice on the MSE page which says you could be eligible for compensation if you're flight is delayed longer than 4 hours and the delay is not due to ATC issues or weather etc.

Would be interested to know if you or anyone else thinks it's worth escalating to ADR based on the reasons given for the cancellation and extended delay.

Thanks again

eskbanker

ronpickering said:

Hi and thanks for the response, the expenses are for the hotel we had to pay for, meals, drink and transport.  I filed for compensation based on the advice on the MSE page which says you could be eligible for compensation if you're flight is delayed longer than 4 hours and the delay is not due to ATC issues or weather etc.

Would be interested to know if you or anyone else thinks it's worth escalating to ADR based on the reasons given for the cancellation and extended delay.

Thanks again

I'd certainly keep pushing them to reimburse your out of pocket expenses as a priority, as there is far less scope for debate about those and they're clearly required to refund these, provided they're reasonable.

The separate compensation issue is much more blurred though - there is no clear definition of exactly what is and isn't extraordinary circumstances and it's certainly not as simple as ATC issues or weather, in that system outages may indeed count, depending on whose system it is (e.g. it could have been an ATC one, or an airport one, etc, rather than one within the airline's control - my suspicion would be that it was the airport-level Collins Aerospace one that was subjected to a major ransomware cyberattack, and therefore likely to be deemed outside the airline's control).

There may be scope for discussion about knock-on delays too, so it might be arguable that a delay in Berlin shouldn't be considered justification to dismiss a claim for a cancellation elsewhere on the following day, but again there's no universally applicable precedent to rely on.  It sounds unlikely that EJ will change tack, so make sure you get a final response from them and then take it to AviationADR if you remain unhappy - it doesn't cost anything so there's nothing to lose, but it's a slow drawn-out process and you won't find out for months whether you'll get anywhere.