Compensation for delayed flights Discussion Area

richardw

ronster1, perhaps search http://www.flightmole.com/forum/index.php for other ryanair situations.

ian41

Airplane500

Apologies for the delayed response.

I have re-read your posts and there are a couple of important points missing from your account - perhaps because you visited the forum to get advice about completing MCOL.

1. Re-route and recovery of this cost
You do not say the cost, time and flight number of your re-route or which airline? On what date did you make a claim for the cost of this re-route to BMI Baby and has this been repaid in full?

2. Considerable Additional Costs
You mention this in passing but do not say what these costs were for apart from mentioning additional costs relating to arriving at a different airport rather than BHX. Please read Articles 8 and 9 of EC Reg 261/2004 as shown in my post # 1150. What were they?

3. Did you ask for a refund of your unused GVA>BHX sector?
I hope not but need to ask you this question for reasons which will become obvious if you read Article 8 carefully. Did you ask for a refund from BMI Baby and if so, when did you ask? Has this been paid to you?

4. Catch all
Please confirm that you have not pressed the button on your MCOL claim. How many people were in your party i.e tickets that you paid for? How much if anything has been received by you from BMI Baby since the morning of the cancellation to date and what did it relate to?

I now have answers to some of the other points so once you reply to the above points, I can suggest how I might move forward if I was in your shoes.

Ian41

airplane500

Hello Ian41 - In answer to you questions:
Following your advice, I’ve not pressed the button on the MCOL claim yet:

1) There were 5 passengers in our party. 4 flew Geneva to Bristol Easyjet 6154 departing 13:50 (total of 1410 CH) whilst I flew Geneva to Gatwick Easyjet 8467 departing 11:15 (284 CH). One of the passengers wrote to BMIbaby on 18th April 2011 saying:
“...To summarise, each person has had to:
* Book a new flight home using Easyjet to Bristol or Gatwick.
* Fund refreshments throughout the day.
* Hire a vehicle to get back from Bristol to Birmingham.
* Refuel the hire vehicle.
I have enclosed a copy of the Easyjet booking form for your information and trust you will be able to provide the necessary documents and advice on how we can recover the costs detailed above which resulted in your cancellation and lack of care.”

I have subsequently written to BMIbaby 3 times asking for this cost to be refunded and to date this flight (which we were told to purchase ourselves by check-in staff) has not been repaid by BMIBaby.

2) The additional costs were for the 4 people who flew to Bristol having to hire a car (£90) to get back to Birmingham (where they lived and where their car was parked in the long stay carpark at BHX). The other costs were for myself who missed a pre-booked train (£25) from Birmingham to London and having to hire a taxi (£60)to get my luggage (I wanted to drop off in Birmingham had our flight not been cancelled) back home.
3) After sending the first letter mentioned in point 1 above, my friend sent another letter to BMIbaby on 24th May 2011 saying, “...European Union regulations also state that we should have received a full refund of the cancelled tickets, compensation and care. At the time of writing we are still awaiting bmibaby to provide any of these duties of care.”
He received a letter dated 9th June from a BMIbaby customer relations rep. apologizing for not refunding the original tickets, claiming they would process it.
BMIbaby eventually refunded this unused flight on 29th June 2011.

4) As I said, I have not applied to MCOL yet and the only thing we’ve received from BMIbaby to date is the refund of the cancelled flight (over two months after the cancellation).

All the original flights were purchased by one person in one booking. The passengers were myself, my brother and his wife and another couple (who purchased the flights).

Once again, thanks for taking the time to help out.

doubleshiny

I just wanted to let you know about a case I recently had resolved.

July 2010 my American Airlines flight from Manchester to San Diego was delayed by over 24 hours and they said it was because the captain's seat couldn't be adjusted. I claimed my 600 euro compensation which I was entitled to, but then they changed their story and said that the delay was due to security reasons and therefore they were exempt from paying compensation. They gave me a $250 flight voucher. I contacted the CAA and they took up my case. After six months of back and forth they successfully got American Airlines to give me the full amount of compensation but AA gave it in the form of a voucher again. They CAA asked if I would prefer it in cash, I said yes, and sent back the voucher along with my bank details. The full amount was paid by BACS three days later.

So if you find airlines trying to lie about why the delay happened, contact the CAA and they will be able to get the truth out of them. They wrote very strongly worded letters and were brilliant. Took 14 months in the end but I got my 600 euros.

airplane500

Ian41, is the reason you asked whether I'd asked for a refund of the unused GVA>BHX flight to do with this?
From the European Comission website:
http://ec.europa.eu/youreurope/citizens/travel/passenger-rights/air/index_en.htm
"If...your flight is cancelled...you have the right to choose between being rerouted to your final destination or having your ticket reimbursed.
If you request reimbursement of your ticket, you give up the right to any further onward travel, assistance or re-routing from the airline company."


We were advised by the check-in staff to purchase our own flights home on another airline (Easyjet) and claim it back when we returned to England. We requested reimbursment 3 days after the cancelled flight.
So we did not request reimbursment at Geneva airport and BMIBaby did not give us a choice between rerouting or reimbursment as I believe they are legally obliged to do.

ian41

airplane500

I have been travelling and busy with some pressing matters elsewhere. I am very sorry that I have not had a chance to respond fully and hope to do so by the end of the weekend.

In the meantime, here are some practical responses.

Yes there is a problem - not because you requested reimbursement of your re-routed flights (you were entitled to do this) but because you also asked for a reimbursement (refund) of your GVA/BHX ticket.

If you do the latter, the contract is concluded and you have no further rights to re-routing assistance. You can either obtain a refund of your unused ticket or get the airline to re-route you to your final destination - but not both!

If you request reimbursement of your ticket, you give up the right to any further onward travel, assistance or re-routing from the airline company."

I suggested to you that you read Article 8 of EC Reg 261/2004 - indeed I suggest again you read (or re-read) Articles 5 to 9 inclusive. The full text is here:

http://eur-lex.europa.eu/LexUriServ/LexUriServ.do?uri=CELEX:32004R0261:EN:HTML

In your Letter before Action which you will be sending to BMI Baby, you will now argue that as BMI Baby failed to notify you of your rights under Article 14 of EC Reg 261/2004, you were unware of this technicality, and in requesting a refund of your used ticket, you have treated the money received as a partial reimbursement of your re-routing costs.

I would prefer to wait and reply fully but your post on 27 October suggests that there appear to be some other misunderstandings on your part. When there is a reference to expenses or costs in Articles 8 and 9, these are additional costs due to the cancellation. You cannot reclaim for monies which you spent on a train ticket from BHX/London because you had spent that money previously. However, your travel costs from LGW are eligible if they are seen to be reasonable and you have a receipt. The hire car at Bristol for the other four again should be eligible with receipts as presumably this was the most cost effective way of travelling back to Birmingham.

Equally, I have a problem with the "fund refreshments throughout the day". If I understand correctly, you left GVA 45 mins or so after your scheduled departure. If so I am sorry but you are not eligible for refund of any refreshments from a commonsense viewpoint and I would suggest strongly that these should not be claimed. The original purpose of Article 9 as I understand it, was to ensure that passengers were reimbursed with refreshment costs in reasonable relation to waiting time at the airport. Some pax have to wait 2/3 days at the airport. So whilst the other four may have incurred some additional costs they do need to be proportional and reasonable e.g. if you had left GVA with BMI Baby at 1035, then all your refreshment costs at the airport (both before and afterwards) would have been payable by you and your four friends for the rest of the day. So any claim needs not only to be sensible but to be seen to be sensible and proportional as well as receipted. My suggestion - think modest.

Remember that in this letter which will be written by you or the party leader, you will be setting out your claim in a full and a reasonable way as it will be part of your documentation for the court. You need to be seen to be submitting a claim for the correct sums under the Regulation and only include sums which can be substantiated. It is not a "let's give it a go and see what happens" situation.

Separately, there are some points relating to the compensation. In general, and if I was in your (collective) shoes, I would be submitting a compensation claim under EC Reg 261/2004 Arts 5 to 7 for Eur 250 (at an exchange rate on 15 April of 1 EUR = 0.88385 GBP) per person for the four friends who travelled via Bristol. Re your travel, you need to look closely as Art 7.2 (a), as it might be argued that a 50% reduction in compensation might be required - arrival within 2 hours?

The re-routed flights need to be claimed for at an exchange rate on 15 April of 1 CHF = 0.685275 GBP. Of course, if the claim proceeds to court, then court fees and interest will be added to the total claim less amount received, from 16 April 2011.

Sorry to ask you to be patient for a little longer but have to say that I am mightily relieved that you did not pursue an earlier MCOL action.

Ian41

airplane500

Thanks Ian41. I think I've got answers to all the points you raised, I'll wait till you're able to respond fully before posting them.
Glad I held off on the MCOL action now...

airplane500

OK, I received a cheque for £680 this morning from BMIBaby, "In respect of the new flights purchased, the difference between the amount paid and the amount already refunded by BMIBaby". So this is for the Easyjet flights we had to purchase on the morning of cancellation minus the amount they've already paid us for the cancelled flights.
There is no mention in the letter of the 250 Euros compensation or reason why it's taken over six months for them to send this money. I have not deposited the cheque yet.
My original gripe of how difficult it is to get what legally you are entitled to has been strengthened - if I hadn't sent countless letters, researched EU Law and received (great) advice about the intricacies of said law from Ian41, I would have given up. I shouldn't have had to do this - it's taken time and effort to get this far (and it's not over yet) over something the airline should have automatically taken care of.

Anyway, I look forward to any advice on the next step I can take...

ian41

Airplane500

Just need a simple yes or no, is the amount received for the net cost of flights correct?

If not tell me why/how it is wrong please

I would add that you have been quite fortunate on the flight refund as BMI Baby could have dug their heels in and said no, with the law on their side. Before you continue with your mini-crusade, can we finish this first and then by all means express your dissatisfaction afterwards. And 6 months is not a long time with these situations -very often because claimants go off at a tangent without knowing what they are doing!

airplane500

Easyjet flights cost us £1160.85

BMIbaby refund for cancelled flights received July £518.88
BMIbaby refund for Easyjet flights received today £685.04