After the Work Programme

Podge52

sensibleadvice wrote: »

The evidence is they're not finding work over a long period whilst others in the same environment are. Given the number of unemployed, however the figures are presented there's bound to be a much higher number on JSA finding work in less than 12 months than ending up on WP. Perhaps someone has a stat of how many on JSA find work before WP kick in so we can consider that ratio?

If they are using their skills and experience to best effect then you have to consider the quality of the applicant and that becomes the elephant in the room - much easier to blame WP, or systems govt etc. Indeed you've touched on this in your last para and none of those reasons are the fault of WP.

Which brings us back to barriers, some of which can't be overcome.

Certainly the biggest will be the time unemployed.
Yes you can do voluntary work to improve your cv and show a work ethic, although in my opinion even this has been undermined by the wp forcing people into voluntary work. Employers know this so it wouldn't carry as much weight as it once did.

Age is another barrier that can't be overcome.

Mental health issues is another.

Again you talk about people blaming the system, will you get it into your head, they are not, they are simply saying the system doesn't help them as it was intended to do. That's a completely different thing. Something you don't want to or can't understand.

red_devil

Podge52 wrote: »

Which brings us back to barriers, some of which can't be overcome.

Certainly the biggest will be the time unemployed.
Yes you can do voluntary work to improve your cv and show a work ethic, although in my opinion even this has been undermined by the wp forcing people into voluntary work. Employers know this so it wouldn't carry as much weight as it once did.

Age is another barrier that can't be overcome.

Mental health issues is another.

Again you talk about people blaming the system, will you get it into your head, they are not, they are simply saying the system doesn't help them as it was intended to do. That's a completely different thing. Something you don't want to or can't understand.

good post.

tomterm8

Well, this is all kind of hypothetical.

Ten or so years ago I was unemployable. A mixed range of physical illnesses (I have factor v leiden, had two pulmonary embolisms and a dvt, with resultant postthrombotic disorder which meant I could barely walk. Walk far enough to not qualify for ESA but not a real world job) with a range of mental health problems that made it virtually impossible for me to do well enough at an interview to get a job...

What could the work program have done for me?
Or the jobcentre?

I'd not have given me a job myself, and there wasn't much I could do at the time to make myself magically employable. Luckily, I'm a smart chap and it was possible for me to start my own business.

But, actually, that history and my self-employment actually means I'm probably still pretty unemployable (just for different reasons). I can get work, but not jobs.

sensibleadvice

red_devil wrote: »

when you go back to the jc after the work programme your in for a shock. They do their best to make life so bad you sign off and occassionally it works.

They care only about shaving abit of the bill here and there.

They have special advisors who are picked for their hardness and nastiness yes its true.

Bitter sounding anecdotal perceptions aside, do you have any evidence of this?

red_devil

sensibleadvice wrote: »

Bitter sounding anecdotal perceptions aside, do you have any evidence of this?

yes of course.

BillJones

mro wrote: »

Generalised throwaway twaddle.

Those on benefits are in daily battle to survive.

A daily battle to survive that includes time sitting at a computer chatting away on the internet?

Battles to survive aren't what they once were.

sensibleadvice

imatt wrote: »

And what's funny is the fact that people out of work for 12 months are called long term unemployed. Long enough for them to get a job in your words. And yet the WP has been going for OVER two years now. The results are dismal and yet government ministers still refer to the program as being in its "early stages"!

If a jobseeker should easily get a job within 12 months as you suggest using nothing more than his own resources, then why on earth cannot private companies with far greater resources, backing from JCP, the DWP and government ministers not perform much better than they are doing right now??? Especially when one considers they are now into their third year of delivering the WP!!!

Again, you are being overly repetitive and are treating ALL those out of work for 12 months as the same regardless. Until you have walked a mile in someone else's shoes, you have no idea what you are on about. You have far too much of an "I'm all right Jack mentality".

You tell me, how many are currently unemployed? Pick whichever figure you like. How about the lowest, the one that many complain is not a true figure.. Out of those, what percentage end op on
WP? Not many I'll bet but now you've heads up see if you can disprove it.

I didn't say all but that's a common tactic used to avoid the point. That elephant is still in the room and certainly in the 2014 WP class.

I provide opportunities for keen proactive applicants but along the way I come across many disinterested apathetic types.

tomterm8

We're not really talking about short term unemployed people, though, are we sensibleadvice? We're talking about long term unemployed people.

People who would actually end up on WP.

Whether the WP actually provides any value for money to tax payers has to be based on some evidence that the target group for WP actually benefits from it. i.e. that they are more likely to find a job as a result of being on the work program.

I've never seen any evidence of that. Have you?

The only evidence I've seen is that 98% of people who go on the work program still haven't found a job at the end of the program.

sensibleadvice

red_devil wrote: »

yes of course.

Great then you'll be AOK should you need to appeal.

sensibleadvice

tomterm8 wrote: »

We're not really talking about short term unemployed people, though, are we sensibleadvice? We're talking about long term unemployed people.

People who would actually end up on WP.

Whether the WP actually provides any value for money to tax payers has to be based on some evidence that the target group for WP actually benefits from it. i.e. that they are more likely to find a job as a result of being on the work program.

I've never seen any evidence of that. Have you?

The only evidence I've seen is that 98% of people who go on the work program still haven't found a job at the end of the program.

Question is would the 2% that did have done so had they not?