After the Work Programme

AP007

sensibleadvice wrote: »

I realise that. Still the previous 12 months job seeking must have proved just as pointless to necessitate WP.

And if the WP providers are getting over £6million to enlist just 16,000 people you'd like to think they would use that and their contacts/experience to get people into work.

Morglin

sensibleadvice wrote: »

That's my observation, long term claimants adamant that the cause of their unemployment and finding work lies with someone else. Negative post wp experiences expecting others to sort their problems as you've evidenced here.

Why shouldn't the long term unemployed take responsibility for their own situation?

Of course LT unemployed should take responsibility, but as the government are persistently and constantly telling taxpayers that these WP's are there to help and support the jobless into a job, and get them off benefits, it seems clear to me that they are doing neither - as it is also clear to many attendees and JCP staff, who are as disillusioned with them as anyone else. It has become an expensive tick-box exercise to shunt people from department to department and massage the unemployment figures.

We were told that he UJM vacant jobs site would make vacancies easier to find for the jobless - now it turns out that many of the jobs no longer exist, some are financial scams and some are just agency
flyers. Why aren't the 'employers' checked out properly?

The Universal Credit system was going to be the Shangri-La of benefits and tax credits and vast amounts of money has been thrown (and thrown away) because of it. It's unlikely to ever be up and running any time soon, so the theory that everyone would be better off working has gone by the wayside.

I have no problems helping support any scheme that gets people into work, and makes it pay for them to be there, but I do resent funding WP's and other ill thought out ideas just to shuffle people about aimlessly, and appease those who think all unemployed are worthless scroungers. Some are, most aren't.

Many many sanctions were issued last year - many were overturned on appeal, most got hardship allowance anyway, and it costs a lot to administer - so why are they being issued so readily? They should only be a last resort, not a tool for over excitable JCP staff to hurl out at will!

As I say, I have no personal whinge about these schemes, as I will never have to do one - but I do resent my ever increasing tax bill funding all this nonsense, for a dubious 2% overall success rate, especially as most of the success in people having any sort of result seems to be with zero contract, temporary contracts and agency work - all of which means they will usually be back on the dole pretty quickly.

Everyone who can work, should work, because with that brings pride and a sense of worth. Long term unemployed and youngsters should be given all appropriate help (proper help) to secure proper jobs.

Until WP's can help in practical ways, by liasing with potential employers etc., we are just throwing money away.


Lin :wall:

sensibleadvice

AP007 wrote: »

And if the WP providers are getting over £6million to enlist just 16,000 people you'd like to think they would use that and their contacts/experience to get people into work.

And if 16,000 claimants are getting £60m in JSA alone for their 12 months job seeking you'd like to think they'd use their skills and experience to get themselves into work.

AP007

sensibleadvice wrote: »

And if 16,000 claimants are getting £60m in JSA alone for their 12 months job seeking you'd like to think they'd use their skills and experience to get themselves into work.

Why are you twisting everything?

YOU have the impression that people out of work 12 months or more are so for a reason.

the WP are meant to work out why and help them get a job

How do you think they do this?

Please tell us all how you think the WP works

Or you think its ok to pay a private company £6 million for nothing and no results?

sensibleadvice

Morglin wrote: »

Of course LT unemployed should take responsibility, but as the government are persistently and constantly telling taxpayers that these WP's are there to help and support the jobless into a job, and get them off benefits, it seems clear to me that they are doing neither - as it is also clear to many attendees and JCP staff, who are as disillusioned with them as anyone else. It has become an expensive tick-box exercise to shunt people from department to department and massage the unemployment figures.

We were told that he UJM vacant jobs site would make vacancies easier to find for the jobless - now it turns out that many of the jobs no longer exist, some are financial scams and some are just agency
flyers. Why aren't the 'employers' checked out properly?

The Universal Credit system was going to be the Shangri-La of benefits and tax credits and vast amounts of money has been thrown (and thrown away) because of it. It's unlikely to ever be up and running any time soon, so the theory that everyone would be better off working has gone by the wayside.

I have no problems helping support any scheme that gets people into work, and makes it pay for them to be there, but I do resent funding WP's and other ill thought out ideas just to shuffle people about aimlessly, and appease those who think all unemployed are worthless scroungers. Some are, most aren't.

Many many sanctions were issued last year - many were overturned on appeal, most got hardship allowance anyway, and it costs a lot to administer - so why are they being issued so readily? They should only be a last resort, not a tool for over excitable JCP staff to hurl out at will!

As I say, I have no personal whinge about these schemes, as I will never have to do one - but I do resent my ever increasing tax bill funding all this nonsense, for a dubious 2% overall success rate, especially as most of the success in people having any sort of result seems to be with zero contract, temporary contracts and agency work - all of which means they will usually be back on the dole pretty quickly.

Everyone who can work, should work, because with that brings pride and a sense of worth. Long term unemployed and youngsters should be given all appropriate help (proper help) to secure proper jobs.

Until WP's can help in practical ways, by liasing with potential employers etc., we are just throwing money away.


Lin :wall:

Have you considered just how employable and motivated to find work are these people who find themselves on WP. From my experience many are virtually unemployable and/or don't want work, from application to CV and the biggie for me..bad attitude.

If someone walked through my door canvassing work and were well presented, keen, articulate and had evidently made an effort with their speculative admin I'd certainly keep their details and invite to interview when temporary or permanent posts became available which is quite often in my line. In fact if the presented themselves that way I'd ask them to follow periodically as vacancies do arise and if they did that they'd bump themselves further up such that they may bypass the agency route and eliminate the majority of their competition in the process.

Sure the jobs are basic, but at 20% above minimum wage not to be sniffed at. Not their line of work - fine if they're keen and fulfil a temporary business need until they move on that's good for me and good for them because at least they get employment on their CV and a current reference.

tomterm8

sensibleadvice wrote: »

And if 16,000 claimants are getting £60m in JSA alone for their 12 months job seeking you'd like to think they'd use their skills and experience to get themselves into work.

Why do you think they're not using their skills and experience to get into work? What evidence have you got?

Just saying "they're not in work" isn't good enough. To claim jobseekers allowance you have to do a certain number of steps and apply to a certain number of jobs. You have to be actively looking. The jobseekers agreement normally gets tougher over time, too.

After a year on jobseekers allowance you've already been on interview courses, had your cv looked over by advisors. Your job search is checked every time you sign on. So, what exactly do you think the work program does to help you?

If you've got mental health problems or physical or learning disabilities, or are over 50, or are a former convict it's possible that despite trying desperately hard no employer is going to give you much of a chance when they can get someone who is an 20 year old, smart and fit to do the job.

sensibleadvice

AP007 wrote: »

Why are you twisting everything?

YOU have the impression that people out of work 12 months or more are so for a reason.

the WP are meant to work out why and help them get a job

How do you think they do this?

Please tell us all how you think the WP works

Or you think its ok to pay a private company £6 million for nothing and no results?

There's nothing twisted about that calculation, 16k claimant x 52 weeks x £71.50 is 10 times the figure your complaining about. That's without taking account of all the other benefits many are likely getting on top of that.

Instead of moaning about WP, the cost of WP an how effective it is, how about considering the claimants 12 months job seeking prior to WP, the cost of that 12 months, and how effective that WP group has been prior to WP. Is that group's success rate better than 0%?

You're still failing to acknowledgre that after a year of unsuccessful job searching The WP class of 2014 may not actually be that employable or the best students. Unthinkable as that may be to you it's more than likely a substantial factor in a lager proportion of those 16,000.

sensibleadvice

tomterm8 wrote: »

Why do you think they're not using their skills and experience to get into work? What evidence have you got?

Just saying "they're not in work" isn't good enough. To claim jobseekers allowance you have to do a certain number of steps and apply to a certain number of jobs. You have to be actively looking. The jobseekers agreement normally gets tougher over time, too.

After a year on jobseekers allowance you've already been on interview courses, had your cv looked over by advisors. Your job search is checked every time you sign on. So, what exactly do you think the work program does to help you?

If you've got mental health problems or physical or learning disabilities, or are over 50, or are a former convict it's possible that despite trying desperately hard no employer is going to give you much of a chance when they can get someone who is an 20 year old, smart and fit to do the job.

The evidence is they're not finding work over a long period whilst others in the same environment are. Given the number of unemployed, however the figures are presented there's bound to be a much higher number on JSA finding work in less than 12 months than ending up on WP. Perhaps someone has a stat of how many on JSA find work before WP kick in so we can consider that ratio?

If they are using their skills and experience to best effect then you have to consider the quality of the applicant and that becomes the elephant in the room - much easier to blame WP, or systems govt etc. Indeed you've touched on this in your last para and none of those reasons are the fault of WP.

red_devil

when you go back to the jc after the work programme your in for a shock. They do their best to make life so bad you sign off and occassionally it works.

They care only about shaving abit of the bill here and there.

They have special advisors who are picked for their hardness and nastiness yes its true.

imatt

sensibleadvice wrote: »

The evidence is they're not finding work over a long period whilst others in the same environment are. Given the number of unemployed, however the figures are presented there's bound to be a much higher number on JSA finding work in less than 12 months than ending up on WP. Perhaps someone has a stat of how many on JSA find work before WP kick in so we can consider that ratio?

If they are using their skills and experience to best effect then you have to consider the quality of the applicant and that becomes the elephant in the room - much easier to blame WP, or systems govt etc. Indeed you've touched on this in your last para and none of those reasons are the fault of WP.

And what's funny is the fact that people out of work for 12 months are called long term unemployed. Long enough for them to get a job in your words. And yet the WP has been going for OVER two years now. The results are dismal and yet government ministers still refer to the program as being in its "early stages"!

If a jobseeker should easily get a job within 12 months as you suggest using nothing more than his own resources, then why on earth cannot private companies with far greater resources, backing from JCP, the DWP and government ministers not perform much better than they are doing right now??? Especially when one considers they are now into their third year of delivering the WP!!!

Again, you are being overly repetitive and are treating ALL those out of work for 12 months as the same regardless. Until you have walked a mile in someone else's shoes, you have no idea what you are on about. You have far too much of an "I'm all right Jack mentality".