Parking Eye - Service Station

weary_driver

Hi,
I've been reading the forums and am amazed at how helpful the experts are in this area. I wanted to check if the advice for myself would be any different to the others as I don't want to waste anyone's time but don't want to be scammed out of the £100 parking fine. Any advice would be much appreciated!

The details of the PCN I received are:
Company: Parking Eye
Where: Service station on the M6
Event date: 4 Jul 2013
Date Issued: 9 Jul 2013
Claimed infringment: parking in the service station car park early that moring for 2 hours 35 mins.

What happened: Returning from a holiday abroad on an early flight into Birmingham, we were returning home to Scotland. Having driven for an hour or 2, everyone else was sleeping in the car and for safety reasons I pulled off for a break.
I didn't notice the signs stating the 2 hour limit when we pulled into the service station as I was too busy making sure I was in the right lane for cars and avoiding the normally high service station kerbs as you approach the car park). Hence had no idea there was even a 2 hour limit.

I parked the car (almost empty car park) with the intention of having a rest, getting a coffee and carrying on. I fell asleep, woke up 1.5 to 2 hours later, went inside, bought a coffee from Starbucks, then some bottles of juice, chocolate and snack from the WH Smith and returned to my car (I don't have any receipts left as I didn't realise I'd need them, but luckily I did pay by card so have credit card statements to show this).

My partner woke at this point, and went inside for to use the bathroom and to also get a coffee from Starbucks. We then left the (still quiet) car park, and travelled the rest of the way home. If I'd realised I needed to pay to stay longer I'd have had no issue doing so, I wasn't trying to get away with anything, I just wanted to rest for safety reasons, get a coffee and snacks, and then get home as soon as possible.

Is the advice is to provide Parking Eye notice that I want to appeal as per the other recent responses in similar threads, or is there any thing different given the fine was issued in England but we live in Scotland (I doubt it, but wanted to check as on other threads I've seen specific England and NI comments). Or given I can show we bought from Starbucks and WH Smith, should I be contacting them in the first instance?

Any advice much appreciated as I really don't want to end up having to pay these guys a penny.

Thanks in advance!

Coupon-mad

As this happened in England I would be looking to appeal and either get it cancelled now or win it at POPLA.

So that means sending a first appeal to the PPC, which can be a short challenge or a longer one showing them you mean business. Someone saw off UKCPS with a strong first appeal and we know Parking Eye are struggling to cope with appeals so you may like to burden them with yours like this one:

http://forums.pepipoo.com/index.php?...pic=79697&st=0

but by contrast, here's a thread talking about soft/short appeals, with links to examples:

http://forums.pepipoo.com/index.php?...st=20&start=20

and here's a very recent post from Guys Dad suggesting grounds that should certainly be in even the shortest first challenge, in order to extract a POPLA code:

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/comment/62538833#Comment_62538833

Enclose proof of your payments to the outlets (but cover bank details = nothing showing your name and account number for obvious privacy reasons and because that would suggest you were the driver which your letter should AVOID).

If you try the strong challenge version, you can also say their signs were not seen by 'the driver' and do not comply with the specific Dept for Transport requirements for traffic signs within a Motorway Service Area (MSA) nor with the BPA Code of Practice. This is a fact so you can certainly state it in your challenge.

Also by restricting the whole visit to a MSA to two hours they are breaching the Dept for Transport statement that drivers are allowed a full two hours REST, once PARKED, in a MSA. Not two hours for the entire visit including stopping at the petrol station to fill up with fuel, water and air and readjusting any luggage. As PE rely on cameras at the entrance and exit they have no evidence of actual parking time and are not allowed to penalise a driver who may well have only actually PARKED for two hours. In doing so they are also ignoring the BPA Code of Practice on 'grace periods' of extra time which are mandatory to allow a driver to arrive, queue to park, read the signs & decide to stay, then to load up the car and queue to leave.

Either way you will be wanting a POPLA code if they do not cancel the fake PCN, and either way you must write in the third person as the 'keeper' NOT implying who was driving (as you will see from the linked examples, write about 'the driver' in the third person).

When you get a POPLA code come back and we can help with a winning POPLA stage appeal. You won't be paying this so no worries about any discount deadline! Pretty sure you can use POPLA even though you are in Scotland...as the incident was in England.

HTH

Guys_Dad

Have a look at my suggested initial appeal just posted here. https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/4683073

This will probably be rejected, but it gets you to the POPLA stage and we can then do a proper appeal that will win.

weary_driver

Thanks for the advice, much appreciated! I'll follow up this weekend and come back when I have the POPLA code as suggested.

Thanks!

Iceweasel

Being a Scottish person this is exactly the problem I have found myself in - in the past - before the new POPLA rules.

Keeper in Scotland - parking in England - how International!

I have always ignored the letters that arrive later - and after a while they stop.

Personally I would be minded to continue ignoring them, as POPLA have no jurisdiction outside of England & Wales, as far as I know.

I also think that I am not obliged to give the the driver's details to any private parking money grabbers either.

I've asked questions about this very recently and so far no test cases that I know of.

So what can happen if we Scots do absolutely nothing?

Stroma

The registered keeper is in Scotland , even though this happened in England, I don't believe popla can be used with drivers outside the legislation , and the bpa says as much

However on 1st October this changed with the introduction of the Protection of Freedoms Act. Whilst the act itself deals with the banning of the clamping and removal of vehicles where there is no lawful authority, the Schedule 4 of the act enables the parking operator to pursue the keeper of the vehicle if no serviceable address for the driver is provided. Unfortunately a ‘serviceable address’ means that the details must fall within the jurisdiction of the legislation, that is to say the address must be British. This is actually a better process than if a ticket is issued on the public highway, where the keeper is automatically liable, with no opportunity for driver disclosure.

This has been discussed within the last week or so, not only on here but on cag as well. The advice IMO is to do nothing as parking eye cannot use the small claims track as it doesn't cover Scotland

And the sheriffs court won't hear anything that relies on pofa 2012 as its meaningless in Scotland. I will try and look for the relevant thread and links in a bit.

Coupon-mad

Well this is PE and as they have a firm of solicitors and a barrister on board to sue people who live in England & Wales, it wouldn't surprise me if they also appointed a Scottish firm of solicitors to try a few Scottish cases. PE are a very large and aggressive pariah in car parks at the moment. The only way to really stop them is to complain to their clients soooo much that they are kicked out. A parasite can only live if it has a host.

And seeing as POPLA causes the PPC to lose a case at their own expense, what's not to like about a forum-assisted strong POPLA appeal?!

Stroma

Coupon-mad wrote: »

Well this is PE and as they have a firm of solicitors and a barrister on board to sue people who live in England & Wales, it wouldn't surprise me if they also appointed a Scottish firm of solicitors to try a few Scottish cases. PE are a very large and aggressive pariah in car parks at the moment. The only way to really stop them is to complain to their clients soooo much that they are kicked out. A parasite can only live if it has a host.

And seeing as POPLA causes the PPC to lose a case at their own expense, what's not to like about a forum-assisted strong POPLA appeal?!

I don't think your advice in this case is correct, they cannot use pofa 2012 in Scotland , there is no keeper liability in Scotland . And according to the bpa a serviceable address is only within the jurisdiction of the legislation which discounts Scotland

Iceweasel

Coupon-mad wrote: »

Well this is PE and as they have a firm of solicitors and a barrister on board to sue people who live in England & Wales, it wouldn't surprise me if they also appointed a Scottish firm of solicitors to try a few Scottish cases. PE are a very large and aggressive pariah in car parks at the moment. The only way to really stop them is to complain to their clients soooo much that they are kicked out. A parasite can only live if it has a host.

And seeing as POPLA causes the PPC to lose a case at their own expense, what's not to like about a forum-assisted strong POPLA appeal?!

I agree with you Coupon-mad, I would like to see a test case.

Either with a POPLA appeal or a 'do nothing' and see which Court case transpires.

If I was in the OP's position I might well be prepared to have a go at the appeal route, just for the hell of it, to see if it was thrown out for 'not having a serviceable address.'

I'm not going to go out of my way to 'overstay' just to see what they do quite yet.

I have several trips to London coming up in the Autumn though.

Stroma

This is the link
https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/4703061

Though the OP of that is posting here as well

Coupon-mad

Stroma wrote: »

I don't think your advice in this case is correct, they cannot use pofa 2012 in Scotland , there is no keeper liability in Scotland . And according to the bpa a serviceable address is only within the jurisdiction of the legislation which discounts Scotland

They wouldn't have to use POFA. I just wouldn't put it past them to try a case based on contract law alone. But I agree if they didn't know who the driver was they'd be stuffed in a Scottish Court so it's imperative the OP does not divulge nor imply who was driving.