Advice & clarification for folks in Scotland.

Iceweasel

I usually find 2 or 3 of these parking scam tickets/litter stuck to my car every year.

Lately they have increased though.

Tesco, Asda and various others have started putting up signs regards parking 'supervision' where before there was nothing at all.

I am sure that I am correct in continuing to totally ignore them and make no response at all, where the alleged 'crime' took place in Scotland.

However I have in the past received similar 'requests' for money from alleged overstaying in MSAs on my travels south of the border with my camper-van. The M6 is particularly bad for this.

How should I deal with these? I am sure I will get at least one over the summer.

Does my Scottish address protect me from these, or should I follow the soft appeal / rejection / POPLA progression as those resident in England and Wales are now advised to take?

Stroma

It's an interesting point, and one I'm not sure that there is a definitive answer, I have asked the bpa a number of times this situation but they are very quiet on it, which suggests this is something not considered.

My opinion is to do nothing, the reasoning is that you are out of area for popla, at least the bpa suggests a serviceable address is one where popla operates, so Scotland and NI are out. Also pofa 2012 cannot be enforced in Scotland where you reside.

Another point is that to my knowledge not a single parking company have issued a claim in Scotland, and whether they will in future is a possibility but not likely.

AltheHibby

Stroma, I would have thought that the ticketing location trumped the RKs home address as would be the case with council tickets. Happy to be corrected.

Stroma

Yes but how can they enforce it in Scotland ? Remember pofa 2012 can't be enforced in Scotland as that is where the person is living, which means keeper liability can't be forced either. This is not a council ticket so completely different.

Also as the RK can only be taken to the sheriffs court something that these companies have never done. And as this happened in England I don't think they'd even hear something that happened outside their area, though I'm not 100% sure on that last part.

The_Slithy_Tove

Stroma wrote: »

Yes but how can they enforce it in Scotland ? Remember pofa 2012 can't be enforced in Scotland as that is where the person is living, which means keeper liability can't be forced either. This is not a council ticket so completely different.

They can still take you to court in an English court. Same as there is a trend of libel suits in England against foreigners (this because it's easier to sue for libel here than, say, the US). My guess is you could only transfer it to an English (or Welsh) court.

However, unlike if they were to take an overseas resident to court and win by default, the Scottish loser could still end up with an English CCJ, which would reflect on their UK credit record - not something one would want. A Frenchman or American with an English CCJ could, on the other hand, carry on regardless, as their access to French or American credit would not be affected.

Now, if Scotland get their independence, there is the possibility that sharing of credit records across the border will probably change somewhat. Is that a reason for voting yes?

IANA lawyer, so this is just my guess as what could happen.

Iceweasel

Curious-er and curios-er, what a can of worms this whole parking thing is.

Perhaps they would apply for extradition for the Scottish (or Northern Irish) keeper to appear in an English (or Welsh) court.

Very international. Hmmm.

Stroma

The_Slithy_Tove wrote: »

They can still take you to court in an English court. Same as there is a trend of libel suits in England against foreigners (this because it's easier to sue for libel here than, say, the US). My guess is you could only transfer it to an English (or Welsh) court.

However, unlike if they were to take an overseas resident to court and win by default, the Scottish loser could still end up with an English CCJ, which would reflect on their UK credit record - not something one would want. A Frenchman or American with an English CCJ could, on the other hand, carry on regardless, as their access to French or American credit would not be affected.

Now, if Scotland get their independence, there is the possibility that sharing of credit records across the border will probably change somewhat. Is that a reason for voting yes?

IANA lawyer, so this is just my guess as what could happen.

I don't believe you are correct on this, if you try and take someone with a Scottish address to the English/welsh small claims it won't let you do it as the address of service is out of their jurisdiction. And ccjs do not exist in Scotland in any case.

If someone is taken to the small claims they are entitled to attend court locally, how will that work in cases like this?

trisontana

This very subject is being covered over on CAG:-

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?396781-Re-Another-Parking-Eye-amp-Debt-Recovery-Plus-Ltd-SCOTLAND%281-Viewing%29-nbsp

I have just received a call from NCP stating that if the defender lives in Scotland the claim will automatically be struck out as the court does not have jurisdiction.
For your own peace of mind call 01604 619 402 press option six an simply ask what will happen to the claim if the defender lives in Scotland. Provide the court ref from the paperwork PE have sent and confirm that it will be struck out, that way you will know if they have actually lodged or if they are bluffing.

They either require Geography lessons or they are using a scare tactic to try and extract money. Nevertheless please scan up the documents , this way all correspondence can be compiled and complaints lodged as need be.

I don't know what the poster means when he says "NCP". Perhaps it refers to the Northampton court.

Iceweasel

Brilliant! Thanks for that trisontana.

An excellent link there to CAG, that I will be keeping an eye on.

They are going to carry out an experiment/test to see what happens with some Scottish registered vehicles.

Looks like our friends at Parking Eye could well be sending PCN demands north of the border to scare folks.

As you might expect there has been little or no media coverage of pofa 2012 in Scotland, so most folks are unaware of any changes.

trisontana

I image that PE are in such a frenzy to send out as many court papers as possible that they haven't the time or the inclination to check the validity of them. Or are they just hoping that enough people (understandably) will not be au fait with the technicalities of this and just pay up?

The_Slithy_Tove

trisontana wrote: »

I have just received a call from NCP stating that if the defender lives in Scotland the claim will automatically be struck out as the court does not have jurisdiction.

Given this, what would happen if a PPC tried to pursue a Scottish resident through the Scottish courts for an unpaid parking charge issued in England. Surely the Scottish courts would also throw it out, as it relates to an incident outside their jurisdiction? If so, that's strange justice. And no, extradition doesn't apply to civil matters, even if Scotland were independent.

Is it time to register my car to a Scottish address (even though it must obviously be insured to the address where I live)?