Landlord entered property for purpose other than we gave permission for

G_M

Blackpool_Saver wrote: »

Yes of course it was BUT why was it directed at me when I KNOW that, it's the very basics isn't it
:rotfl:

It was not simply directed at you - it was directed at readers of the thread who would have read your post:

You stated:

I have NEVER given permission for anyone to be in my home when I am not there, I'll bet you don't in future

I wished to clarify for the benefit of any tenants reading that, that if they wish to deny their LL access, they need to do more than "never give permission". They need to explictly deny permission.

The threads on this forum are read by many people. They are not simply dialogues betweenOP and respondants, or respondant 1 and respondant 2.

Hence it is important to be clear in ones posts, since others may rely on them.

[Deleted User]

Just change your locks.., even though your contract says you can't, legally its not as clear cut as that (you are supposed to be allowed 'quiet enjoyment' which is not what you are getting). Just keep the original locks and change the barrels back when you move out. To be honest, I would not enjoy the prospect of estate agents being able to show people around the house I was paying rent for. Its possible for them to do this until you change the locks.

Any yes, start looking for another house to live.

Blackpool_Saver

G_M wrote: »

It was not simply directed at you - it was directed at readers of the thread who would have read your post:

You stated:
I wished to clarify for the benefit of any tenants reading that, that if they wish to deny their LL access, they need to do more than "never give permission". They need to explictly deny permission.

The threads on this forum are read by many people. They are not simply dialogues betweenOP and respondants, or respondant 1 and respondant 2.

Hence it is important to be clear in ones posts, since others may rely on them.

I thought unless you gave permission for a landlord or agent to enter the property when you are not there then they didn't have permission (in law) unless of course there was a serious emergency.

I thought they had to give 24 hours notice at least even when access was required for something important.... am I misunderstanding?

moneyistooshorttomention

Many years back I found out the law on landlord entry myself and it was certainly 24 hours notice that had to be given even back then.

My landlord had quite a tendency to let himself in whenever he thought he would in order to empty the electric meters.

I just changed the lock, as I knew I wouldn't be able to get him to give me that notice period and he would just continue coming in whenever he thought he would.

AndyPK

Why do you think the electrics ate unsafe?
Surly it was just an excuse to let u know he had been in. And moved stuff.

BobQ

Unless getting a good reference from the landlord/agent is important to you, which you may not get anyway, I would cause him as much difficulty as possible within the law while at the same time looking for somewhere else.

Change the locks and alarm code (which may not be effective as noted).

Formally write to the landlord requesting evidence that the electrical fault has been repaired and that work has been certified by a competent electrician. Report any failures to provide information about safety matters to the council.

Refuse any requests for access for viewings or ensure that during any you tell people about the problems with the house. Nothing malicious, or that you could not prove. Vague opinions about the smelly drains will do!

Report any safety related matters to the landlord, however trivial.

I presume you have a gas safety certificate that was issued less than 1 year ago? If not report it.

Do you have anything in writing saying that the electrical work needed doing. If so this may help you.

I would not worry about the deposit, if the landlord is intending to be awkward he will do this regardless but only if he has proof of reasons for trying to withhold it. I take it that the deposit is protected in a prescribed scheme? If not he is has a problem.

May be wise to take a lot of photographs of the condition of the property now and when you leave.

As you have pictures of people visiting the property when they were not authorised to do so maybe you could write to the landlord complaining about some trivial damage to your property when it was moved, not to claim any recompense just to place on record that things were not done correctly.

As ever with this sort of thing, do not phone or email, insist on letters and keep copies of all correspondence etc.

One other thought (and I do not know the answer). Is there any legal right to know the identities of the people entering a rented property. When you allow the landlord permission (implicitly it includes the electrician) but is he obliged to say which electrician? Equally do you have a legal right to know the name of others he deemed it right to allow entry? Even if you do not have the legal right would it be worth formally writing and requesting the names and addresses of those he allowed access?

G_M

Blackpool_Saver wrote: »

I thought unless you gave permission for a landlord or agent to enter the property when you are not there then they didn't have permission (in law) unless of course there was a serious emergency.

I thought they had to give 24 hours notice at least even when access was required for something important.... am I misunderstanding?

Yes.

This topic recurrs regularly.

The law covering it is a complex combination of statute, contract, and common law. These variously give the landlord rights of access, and the tenant rights of quiet enjoyment. There are conflicts in these rights, which in each case can only be resolved ultimately by a court.

Of course, in practice, and ideally, in 99% of cases the LL/tenant simply resolve the matter either
* by agreement or
* by unilateral action (LL uses key and comes in; tenant changes lock)

But where a court became involved, the rights of the tenant to claim 'quiet enjoyment' (and get it enforced through a court order) would be strengthened 100-fold if he has already explicitly written to the LL making his wishes known.

Of course, if a tenant denies access unreasonably (ie when a LL wants to complete a statutorily-required gas safety inspection) then the court would doubtless grant the LL access anyway, but probobly require him to give the tenant 24 hours notice.

http://www.landlordzone.co.uk/forums/showthread.php?26589-L-s-right-of-access-for-inspection-or-viewing

G_M

BobQ wrote: »

One other thought (and I do not know the answer). Is there any legal right to know the identities of the people entering a rented property. When you allow the landlord permission (implicitly it includes the electrician) but is he obliged to say which electrician? Equally do you have a legal right to know the name of others he deemed it right to allow entry? Even if you do not have the legal right would it be worth formally writing and requesting the names and addresses of those he allowed access?

In addition to my post above, yes, you can of course deny access at the pointof entry to your home.

If a stranger turns up, albeit with an appointment, you have every right to refuse them entry if you are not sure who they are.

Most meter-readers, & gasSafe engineers, for example, carry ID cards, and will even allow you to ring their head officeto check their identity. The same principle applies to anyone else - if you are not satisfied as to who they are, deny them entry to your home.

As the post above says, they (via the landlord) could ultimately get a court order forcing you to let them in (eg to do essential work) but it rarely gets that far....

BobQ

G_M wrote: »

In addition to my post above, yes, you can of course deny access at the pointof entry to your home.

If a stranger turns up, albeit with an appointment, you have every right to refuse them entry if you are not sure who they are.

Most meter-readers, & gasSafe engineers, for example, carry ID cards, and will even allow you to ring their head officeto check their identity. The same principle applies to anyone else - if you are not satisfied as to who they are, deny them entry to your home.

As the post above says, they (via the landlord) could ultimately get a court order forcing you to let them in (eg to do essential work) but it rarely gets that far....

G_M what I was thinking was that if you allow the landlord to access the property for electrical work, what are your rights if the landlord or the electrician turn up with an estate agent who brings hew boyfriend and his mate as a prospective buyer who also brings their Uncle Bernard and his five kids to look at the place. Say that they damage/steal your property. I can see that if you are there at the time you can say well who are you and request identity, but if you are not do you have any rights to know who the landlord let in to walk around your home?

G_M

If you are there,you can be selective. You can admit the electrician, and tell the 5 kids to scram.

If you are not there, your 'rights' become immaterial. They will all come in!

So OK, your next Q is, what can you do retrospectively? If damage has been caused (eg the 5 kids ran amok) you assess the damage, get quotes for repairs, and make a claim, ultimately via the courts if necessary, for whatever loss you have suffered.

And take measures to ensure there is no repetition eg:

* Write prohibiting further access in your absence
* change the locks to guarantee the above
* Only agree to access in your presence, at times convenient to yourself
etc

The problem is that there is no 'penalty' for such a scenario other than

* any quantifiable loss (eg the damage the kids did) or
* a criminal charge of harrassment (Protection from Eviction Act 1977 ) but this of course is much more extreme than the scenario you outline

That is why prevention is the best solution: A clear written instruction prohibiting access in your absence backed up by the physical protection of a changed lock.