The Mobile Outlet

Quentin

chapeau wrote: »

There is a lot of good stuff on this thread, and a lot of nonsense. Nonsense legal advice by people who haven't got a clue.

Your advice that people cannot sue for the total outstanding from a retailer who has breached the contract is nonsense.

And unhelpful, as it causes uncertainty for folk who have never used the courts previously to sue who have come here asking for advice.

chapeau

Yes, well I am getting somewhat tired of banging my head against a brick wall, but for the hell of it.

In a case like this, where the defendant is only in breach of their first cashback, a court cannot compensate you for future losses you have not yet incurred. You have not yet spent the money for cashback claims two and three. The cashback operator has not yet failed to pay your claim for two and three. They cannot be forced to pay you money they do not owe you yet.

You cannot be compensated for cashback claim two if they have only breached the contract in regard to cashback claim one. You have to wait until they have failed to pay those subsequent claims.

A court can, in these cases, only restore you to the position you would have been in had the breach not occurred. i.e. give you cashback claim one (plus any reasonable costs incurred in obtaining it i.e court fees + interest). Read that sentence again, it's a key fundamental principle of law.

To argue that the whole deal is that The Mobile Outlet has agreed to pay your phone bill, so because they are scoundrels you now need all the money up front is laughable.

You can ask the judge to throw the whole contract out due to the defendant's material breach over the first cashback claim, but what would be the benefit of that to the consumer?

This is basic stuff and fundamental to the common law. People like to make things far more complex than they are. They also don't have a clue on simple legal matters, but these internet fora make them think they do.

Keep the entertainment coming.

Quentin

Instead of suggesting people who post here "don't have a clue" go and do some reading up on fundamental (repudiatory) breach of contract.

I don't have anything against jcls, but I do wonder why you joined this board (as 100% of your posts to date are in this thread), and whether you have an ulterior motive in persisting in your thrust that the advice given is "nonsense".

athomick

Quentin wrote: »

Instead of suggesting people who post here "don't have a clue" go and do some reading up on fundamental (repudiatory) breach of contract.

I don't have anything against jcls, but I do wonder why you joined this board (as 100% of your posts to date are in this thread), and whether you have an ulterior motive in persisting in your thrust that the advice given is "nonsense".

I had the same thought.....

chrissymac_2

Can anyone confirm if Themobileoutlet have gone bump? Vodafone have suggested I contact Company's House tomorrow as they are of the same feeling.

mira

Thanks to everyone who has shared with me ideas of what to do next for current cashback problems with TMO.

We have waited for a letter that one of the staff in TMO have claimed that has been issued on 19 October 2007 regarding my sister's 5th cashback claim. However, she hasn't received anything yet and decided to no longer wait but proceed with the LBA then the court.

I have written an LBA, I know it may not be perfect, therefore, I need your comments on what to remove/add. Plus if there is any un necessary info that needs to be removed. Plz advise. Some of the contents of the letter are taken from here so thanks to who ever have supplied it.


Here is the LBA:

Dear Sir/Madam,


Re: Cashback ref: xxxxxxxx (4th and 5th cashback claim)

I believe that my 4th and 5th Cashback claim for mobile number xxxxxx was received by you.


Regarding my 4th claim:

Confirmation of cashback acceptance has been sent by you on 24th September and still to date I haven’t received the 4th instalment.

My 4th claim has been received by you on 30th of August 2007. Therefore the instalment should have been paid by 27 September 2007.

As per your terms and conditions I should have received the cashback within 28 days from receipt of the original documentation:

Clause 11.0
“Once we are receipt of your original documentation, please allow 28 days for delivery of cheques”

Your are therefore in breach of The Unfair Terms in Consumer Contracts Regulations 1999.


Regarding my 5th claim:

I believe you have received my original 5th claim but to date have received no written confirmation in an email or letter advising about it.

I have sent my last original bill for the 5th claim along with my sister’s last original bill for her 5th claim together in the same envelope on 21 September 2007. This is within 21 days of the bill date. (Proof of receipt is available). After a week, online track and trace doesn’t show any sign of delivery.

On 28 September we sent you a covering letter giving the reason why we are resending copy bills for our 5th claims. This was also within 21 days of the bill date. Staff over the phone advised that the original mail may have been received even though no signature has been obtained but we could send copy bills just in case they were lost.

On the 10th of October my sister has received an email confirming her claim has been successful. I haven’t received any email from you or letter advising about my claim. Therefore it is clear that the original mail has been received by you however you are denying the fact that you have received my claim.

We have the evidence (documentary + witnesses) required to show that my original last bill has been sent with my sister’s last original bill.

Staff over the phone seem to also give different answers on my case when I phoned to check on the status of my claim. One says that the 4th and 5th claim will be paid together, another says they have not received my claim and a letter has been issued on 19th of October which should have been sent to me. All those answers were obtained on the same day last week. Therefore I don’t have any trust in you handling my claims. Something must be going wrong.

I have decided then to get one written answer from you by sending an email asking you about the 4th and 5th cashback claims on 1st of November. However I have received no response to the email.


In these circumstances, I am obliged to inform you that should I not receive the full value of both my 4th and 5th Cash back claims within 10 days from the date of this letter, I shall be pursuing legal action against you without further notice to you.

Should it become necessary for me to commence legal proceedings against you, I shall be seeking an Order that you are responsible for my costs of the same.

Should you have any questions or queries, please do not hesitate to contact me on xxxxxxx.

I would strongly recommend that you obtain independent legal advice as to the contents of this mail and I look forward to hearing from you or your chosen legal representative this week.

Yours faithfully,

xxxxxxx

coolio_2

UPDATE: After 1st cashback was late, filed Small Claims for entire contract. Their defence is that no further payments would ever be late. This was late August.

Cash dismissed against them. Admin error and finally just been reopened. 2nd cashback is now just a couple of days away from being 1 months late. Have in writing from them that it was successful.

James212

Quentin wrote: »

Mine wasn't an opinion, all I said was:
"If you want to have the greatest satisfaction from winning this judgement......"

Hi Quentin,

Sorry, I stand corrected. You do indeed qualify your advice to "Nessyjr" with the option "If you want..."

Quentin wrote: »

From what I recall, they went over the 28 days paying you, so you got a double dose of satisfaction anyway!!

Regarding my remaining claim/warrant for £55, this is still outstanding! I spoke to the bailiff several times about this, particulary a few weeks back when there was one or two postings on this thread that suggested TMO were late with filing their accounts and may be about to go bust. The the last time I spoke was on 23.10.07, when they were about to pay TMO a visit and collect the money. They were able to collect payment, and the day after this the warrant status on MCOL changed from "Issued" to "Fulfilled", but the bailiff holds onto the payment for 2 weeks (to ensure that the cheque clears). So the 2 weeks would've ended 06.11.07, therefore I'm hoping to receive a cheque very shortly.

Considering the warrant was issued approximately 1 week after judgement was made (in the absence of a defense by TMO) on 13.08.07, looks like it'll be almost 3 months before this has been paid fully! So it's definitely been over 28 days. If it sits on a register somewhere and causes TMO hassle by affecting their credit score, then that's good! But really I'd just like to get my money and put TMO experience behind me. After all my first (6 month) cash back claim with another retailer will be coming up next month, so I may need to begin the fight all over again . Lets hope not though.

I think (at least, I hope) the delay in obtaining my money after the warrant was issued is is not typical. I was sent a cheque for the original claim (£215) 2 weeks' after the warrant was issued, and this meant I didn't actively chase the bailiff for the remaining £55 as much as if it was the whole £270, at least initially. I believe this was delayed by TMO's change of address (meaning the warrant had to be reissued/updated), and also my letter to the bailiff stating I'd received part payment of the warrant got lost in the post and I had to fax a copy, but this didn't happen for 2 weeks.

Quentin wrote: »

If a firm is going bust, then they won't be paying off any ccjs anyway!

I thought that sending the bailiiffs, by applying for a warrant, gave them (the bailiffs) the right to seize property to the value of the warrant? Although I expect that the bailliff gives the defendant a period of time to do this if, on the first visit, payment is not forthcoming.

James212

coolio wrote: »

Cash dismissed against them. Admin error and finally just been reopened. 2nd cashback is now just a couple of days away from being 1 months late. Have in writing from them that it was successful.

Hi Coolio,

Don't suppose you want to share with the forum what the "Admin error" was that dismissed your claim? Was it your fault or an error made by the court? I was just wondering this, as there has been some heated debate on this thread recently on the legalities of claiming for the full contract's cashback, when only the first claim has been rejected.

What is your plan for the 2nd cash back claim (e.g. ignore and proceed with original claim for full contract cash back?)
Cheers,
James

Kitster

Hi Guys royal mail confirmed my first cashback claim was recieved and signed for by TMO on 26th October - this was only 6 days after the bill date on bill 4(20th Oct)..well within the 21 days.

So today is now 13 days since they signed for my mail. I know I have to wait another 15 days before their 28 days are up but I sent them an SAE to return my bills back to me(inc T&C/despatch note) which i still dont have (dont worry have photocopies of everything..and a video of posting!). Whats the quickest anyone has had their bills sent back to them by tmo or in fact the earliest time of cashback anyone has ever recieved....

Should it just be expected that i have no chance of payment within the 28 day limit they say they will pay? should i just wait the remaining 15 days then LBA then MCOL 7 days later or is it worthwhile sending them an email about returning my stuff?..want to do things 'by the book'.

thx for all your great posts so far...dont know why i am so anxious about getting my moneyback..to date TMO have not put a foot wrong with me..I just expect it I guess!