Anyone used EU Claim/Bott & Co?

bobobski

Justice13075 wrote: »

Remember Bott & Co are dealing with thousands upon thousands of claims the reason being that they are trusted and have fought these cases through the courts and are considered experts. I use them and agree that they can at times be bad at communicating with the clients. Don't let the hassle stop you from starting a second claim on your own. There is help on the site and it is much easier now as court cases have been settled and the law has been clarified. Having said that if i was in your position I wouldn't hesitate to give it to Bott.

Thank you, I've taken your advice and gone with Bott again. As it happens I received an email from them yesterday on my first (Thomson) claim, with lots of detail and asking for instructions. This was from a different person to the person I'm usually dealing with so perhaps I was just unlucky with who picked up my claim when it first arrived.

Fingers crossed on this second claim too. In both, the delays were 6+ hours and I wasn't given the care outlined in Article 9; actually, in the Thomson claim I asked for food and water and they explicitly said no (I will never fly with them again). What is the point in having Article 9 if it's not enforced and there is no punishment for non-compliance?? Bott wouldn't even put in a claim for a refund for food and drink against Thomson as they deal ONLY with Article 7. Thomson explicitly refused to refund that expenditure, even though I sent them time and date stamped receipts.

This whole thing makes me want to scream sometimes.

JPears

Then you need to report them to CAA for failure to adhere to the law regarding your basic subsitance claims.
It probably won't get you anywhere as an an individual but the CAA need to be made aware of the consistent, deliberate failings of the airlines in complying with the law, as well as basic decency to their fare paying passengers.

bobobski

I did report them to the CAA, but they were pretty useless unfortunately.

Schnurrbart

Hi all.

I posted the following in a new thread, not knowing about this one, kindly linked to by another member.

Please note: I have since had a response from Bott & Co. to my enquiry about scanned documents, so that particular aspect of my post is redundant, and question 1 near the end can be ignored. It’s simpler to just state that here rather than spend ages editing the post to remove any reference to the matter. I hope that’s okay.

I have also reproduced my second post (minus a now-redundant paragraph), made after being directed to this thread.

Any help would be greatly appreciated, especially in relation to the matter of paying fees in the event of an unsuccessful claim.

I apologize both for any confusion caused by my not posting here in the first place, and - again - for the length of this post.

********

1st post:

[STRIKE][STRIKE]First of all, apologies if I should have posted this elsewhere rather than starting a new thread, but I couldn’t find a relevant thread.[/STRIKE] Also,[/STRIKE] orry for the length of this post, I err on the side of providing too much information instead of not enough, so please bear with me. The length is also partly due to quoted text.

This post is about some concerns I have regarding the service I have received from Bott & Co., and regarding a few aspects of their Terms & Conditions.

I very recently initiated a flight delay compensation claim on Bott & Co.’s website. Before doing this I used their webform to submit an enquiry. On this form the phone number field is a compulsory field, and the email address field is an optional one (on the Step 2 page it’s the other way round). I included my email address and, in the Additional Information field, explicitly (but politely) requested that they respond via email and not by telephone. Yet, shortly afterwards somebody from the firm phoned me and left a message (as I didn’t pick up). The caller didn’t even answer my query; they simply said where they were calling from and requested that I phone them back! Shortly after this I received an email answering my question. I was slightly disconcerted by the sloppy wording of the last line, especially given the email’s origin: “If you have any other problems please do don’t [sic] hesitate to contact us.”

Anyway, I submitted the required information to get the ball rolling. The confirmation email I received included the line (in bold print): “If you have documentation such as boarding passes, booking confirmations or letters from the airline then please forward them on to us, as it will greatly assist us in dealing with your claim.” As there was no further information on how to forward such documentation I emailed them last night to ask whether they would accept scans rather than the original documents. At the time of writing, I have not had a reply even though their website states: “We usually get back to you within 30 minutes or less during office hours or first thing the next day if not.” Granted, it says “usually” not “always”, but it’s a fairly straightforward question, and they could have acknowledged it even if they needed longer to actually get back to me with an answer. This stands in sharp contrast to the speed of their response to my initial enquiry.

There also seems to be a contradiction between an email that I received from Bott & Co. this morning and the cover letter for their Terms & Conditions, which I received this afternoon. The email says: “Since taking on your case a 'letter before action' has been sent to the airline informing them that we are now working on your behalf.” However, the cover letter for the T&C says: “In order for us to begin work, we just need you to sign and date the following documents to confirm your instructions for us to act on your behalf.” I’m confused by this; they are apparently already working on my behalf according to this morning’s email, even though at this point I had not even received, let alone electronically signed and returned the T&C document. Further muddying the waters is the statement in the T&C document that “Your continuing instruction in this matter will amount to your acceptance of our terms and conditions of business which is [sic] set out in the Conditional Fee Agreement. However, for the sake of completeness, please sign that agreement. Please further sign and date this letter to confirm your instructions to act on the basis set out above.”

In the section of the T&C headed ‘Case Conduct and Court Rules’ it says: “It is… vital that you deliver to us all information and documents that we require or which are in any way related to your claim as soon as possible to avoid such risks [i.e. the risks of the Court striking out the case or imposing cost penalties].” This makes the submission of paperwork to Bott & Co. look like a far more urgent and necessary requirement than is suggested in the claim confirmation email referred to in paragraph 4 above. Again, though, there is no information on how and where to forward documents, or whether it is absolutely necessary to send (irreplaceable) originals.

One last thing that is bothering me is that the claims procedure is touted as being completely risk-free, e.g. the prominent statement on the website that “Our No Win No Fee Promise means you'll never be at financial risk.” Yet point 2 of the section ‘Conditional Fee Agreement: What You Need To Know’ says: “What do I pay if I lose? If you lose you pay your opponents [sic] charges and disbursements. You may be able to take out an insurance policy against this risk. If you lose you do not pay our charges but you may be required to pay our disbursements.” (Under ‘Charges and Expenses’ [page 2] it says: “Also although we have retained the right in the Conditional Fee Agreement to ask you to pay disbursements we reasonably anticipate that we will not have to ask you to fund any such item but rather Bott and Co Solicitors Ltd will fund the disbursements on your behalf and ordinarily seek to recover these sums from the airline.” That does not read to me like a 100% guarantee that I would not have to pay disbursements). Furthermore, point 2 of the CFA [page 6] says: “If you lose you may be liable for the other side’s costs.” So, is the procedure truly free of financial risk as advertised? Of course, the concept of No Win No Fee (i.e. no fee to the solicitor(s) acting on one’s behalf) does not preclude the possibility of having to pay a fee to a party other than one’s solicitor(s), but to repeat myself, Bott & Co clearly and repeatedly emphasize that no financial risk to the client is involved.

I was initially going to phone or email Bott & Co about all this, but my experience so far hasn’t inspired confidence in them (despite their apparent popularity and high success rate), so I thought I would post here, at least in the first instance. This means I can structure my points more effectively and also - hopefully - get some advice, feedback, etc. (please, no complaints about the length of the post!)

I am hoping to continue with the claim, but am very hesitant about electronically signing and returning the T&C document until my concerns have been adequately addressed. If anybody who has read this can shed some light on any of the issues raised, from an anecdotal or legal perspective, I would appreciate your input.

I guess the main questions arising from the waffle above are:

[STRIKE]1 - Am I being over-sensitive about Bott & Co.’s failure to answer my email sent last night, despite having had ample time? Okay, that’s pretty subjective, but for me this (and the fact that they responded to my other enquiry by phone when I clearly asked them not to) raises concerns about their customer service.[/STRIKE]

2 - Are they now acting on my behalf or not? They claim they are (and have already issued the airline with a LBA), but also say that they need my e-signature in order to act on my behalf (while also saying that my continued instruction constitutes acceptance of their T&C).

3 - Is their claims process truly completely free of financial risk to the client? This is the impression given on the website and in the emails I’ve had from the company, but the elements of the T&C that I’ve highlighted suggest otherwise.

Apologies once again for the length of this post. I do actually have one other question, but I think I’d be pushing it including it here! I look forward to any helpful or positive comments. Thanks.

********

2nd post:


Ah, thanks tyzap [for the link to this Bott & Co. thread]!

I've looked through all 19 pages. One particular poster asked the question what happens if you lose, but nobody really addressed that as far as I could tell. Somebody did point out that if Bott & Co. were charging clients for disbursements, etc. after losing a case, then it would probably be well-documented in these very pages (although if Bott & Co. win 99% of cases as claimed, what’s the probability that somebody in the unfortunate 1% will be posting here?). The question of having to pay the opponent’s fees in the event of a lost claim also went unanswered from what I read. It was at least reassuring to see that I’m not the only person who found parts of the T&C confusing and, in some places, apparently contradictory.

I suppose the next step is to contact Bott & Co. directly to obtain a statement to the effect that I would not have to pay a penny - to Bott & Co. or to “the other side” - if the claim were unsuccessful. I just feel that this would be obviated if there were more clarity in the T&C in the first place (and I don’t really understand the defence that the apparently contradictory wording is due to the company’s need to cover all eventualities). I’ll also [STRIKE]draw attention to their failure to reply to my email about forwarding documents, and[/STRIKE] seek some clarity on the issue of whether they are now acting on my behalf (which presumably constitutes a contract) despite the wording in the letter accompanying the T&C document and the fact that I have not yet signed.

The majority of people have only good words for this company, so maybe I’m being too wary. I’m just perturbed by a few things, namely [STRIKE]their failure to respond to my email,[/STRIKE] the lack of clarity in their T&C, and the unresolved question of fees and costs in the event of an unsuccessful claim.

Thank you again for directing me to the appropriate thread.

legal_magpie

This forum is not the place for disputes between solicitors and clients. If you are dissatisfied with Bott and Co or indeed any solicitor, you should first take it up with the partner who has overall responsibility for your case. The name should have been supplied to you in the Client Care letter. If you are still unhappy you should complain to the firm's designated complaints handling partner (all firms are required to have one).
If that fails you are entitled to complain to the Legal Ombudsman

gillimorgan

In answer to your question:

2. Yes they have started to act on your behalf. I have used them in the past and they started to make the claim against the airline as soon as I filled in my details on line. I didn't sign my T&Cs straightaway yet I got updates about my case and constant chasing for me to sign my T&Cs.

3. Yes, it is completely no win no fee so if they don't win, you don't pay. Their customer letters and terms and conditions are the worst i have ever seen and completely contradicts everything within it! I had the same worry and was assured by them that there is absolutely no financial risk to myself.

Hope this answers your questions.

alanfball

Liberty1577 wrote: »

Did you end up signing the above agreement? If so how are things going? I've just received the agreement to sign but am concerned I might end up out of pocket. I've emailed them to get them to explain it in plain English!

I signed up with Bott&Co after a delay with Ryanair. I received lots of updates about how various claims were progressing in general and was then surprised when I received a cheque from Ryanair as full and final settlement of my claim. I was further surprised when I later started to receive emails from Bott&Co saying that they had noted that I had received the cheque direct to my home address and asking how much it was for, I contacted them stating that I was concerned that they were not aware of the amount as they had told me in their updates that they were attending the courts all the time and was worried that they were not the genuine company. I then received emails restating the agreement that I had signed and that they needed the amount to calculate the invoice.
The invoice is as follows:
Compensation amount: £324.62
Percentage fee: £87.65
Administration fee: £20.29
Court fee, fixed costs & interest: £195.55
Amount due:£303.49
I believe that Bott&Co are on a legal gravy train and are sitting at the front with a very big ladle.

JPears

You probably wouldn't have got that cheque at all if Botts hadn't put their money where their mouth is and taken, at their expense/risk, several cases to the highest courts of the land. They have to recoup all that time effort and expense.. You didn't pay the court fees etc, Ryanair should have done that in their settlement figure to you.
If you wanted all the money you could have gone DIY.

DrA_Harrogate

JPears wrote: »

You probably wouldn't have got that cheque at all if Botts hadn't put their money where their mouth is and taken, at their expense/risk, several cases to the highest courts of the land.

Absolutely right JP. However, it seems the charges are not crystal clear in their material. All legal documents are of course terrifying but the volume of confused folk implies a spot of tidying up would be in order.

JPears

Possibly. But I think its also the realisation that they are losing a chunk of money, without knowing what effort and time goes into these claims.
I recently had some PPI refunded via claimsguys, yes they did little work and took 30% plus VAT but it saved me a lot of time and effort.
It was hard paying the amount by bacs but I had done nothing except 2 phone calls and sign a few forms.