Ukip

Graham_Devon

N1AK wrote: »

I can't speak for anyone else however I don't care who prisoners want to vote for just that they are allowed to do so. I don't like it that anyone wants to vote BNP but not liking something isn't always a reason to try and stop it.

You could stop the old voting and get less racist policy. Stop the uneducated voting and get less BNP votes. Stop my fellow Northerners and get fewer BNP votes. I wouldn't suggest any of these on those grounds though

Fair play.

Thought the likely increased BNP vote might swing the argument there for me, but alas

I guess the radical party issue is just something we'd have to put up with. Can't say I'd be impressed by a surge in support if prisioners got the vote though, and the concentrated populations of prisoners in a local seat DO have the ability to swing things for the area....which is why I state I don't like the idea of a prisoner being able to take part in society in this way.

On a secondary point, I'm not so sure how it would actually work. I'm assuming their vote would be for the person standing for the seat in the area of the prison? Therefore, a prison with 1,000 inmates all voting for one party could have quite an influence dependant upon the local area and it's voting patterns?

My worry was that the prison vote swung it in areas around Birmingham for the BNP...even though those prisoners are not necessarily even from Birmingham or the local area. Giving prisoners the vote in that case has had a significant impact on society for those outside of prison.

rabbit_burrow

angrypirate wrote: »

Nearly 4 million is the known immgration. Mitragtion watch state 3 million for the period under Labour so thats 97-2010. This is known mitragion so presumably ONS have figures. So a figure of 4 million hardly seems plucked out of thin air. A figure of 1 million unknown illegal immigration i dont know where that came from. Census data from 2005 looks like there were around .5 million illegals, so presumably this is an extrapolation of that with a factor built in to add a few more for people who didnt fill out the census. On the whole, the basis appear to be good enough for me (a professional engineer who often has to gestimate figures for design)

Try re-reading the post. The top says (and i quote)

It says that it isnt a policy but statements.

Again, these arent policies - just a statement of principles on which policies will be based. This is a lot more than what we are seeing from Labour right now
Dont get what you mean by this? They are still queuing up at Calais now despite the recession in the UK. Maybe with the curtailment of benefits and easier deportation laws they wont. I wont complain.
They are managing to deport small numbers of illegals at the moment. Ultimately, people need to work and you need to disclose an NI to your employer. Illegals wont have NIs. This is already one way they are managing to catch dodgy companies employing illegals.surely thats the idea
Surely this is no surprise - it basically means our courts are driven solely by UK laws. There is no influence from anywhere else. Doesnt mean to say we cant have similar laws dictating similar rights, but they will be UK laws and can be modified as seen fit. I mean, who seriously wants to give prisoners the vote?

The bit in bold was what I was referring to, not the actual number they gave. Doubling a figure to get an estimate? Estimations should not be that extreme.

nomoreboomandbust

mirry wrote: »

We need control of our own borders. Our local taxi firm uses only polish workers, they advertise in Poland. They earn money and send it back home and claim tax credits/child benefits. How does this help the uk economy?
We have lost local jobs for local people and its not the first company to do this. It has nothing to do with Race, it's about numbers. The strain on our services is worrying, kids loosing school places, hospitals not coping. UKIPS policy's = common sence.

Surely the solution is for everybody to boycott this taxi firm, they will soon get the message

GhIFA

Graham_Devon wrote: »

Thought the likely increased BNP vote might swing the argument there for me

But the people who tend to vote for parties like this tend to be fairly entrenched in their views, so would presumably be voting for them before they get sent to prison. I can't see that the number of them in a particular prison is going to be enough to swing the vote for an entire constituency from the mainstream parties to such a minority party.

Graham_Devon

GhIFA wrote: »

But the people who tend to vote for parties like this tend to be fairly entrenched in their views, so would presumably be voting for them before they get sent to prison. I can't see that the number of them in a particular prison is going to be enough to swing the vote for an entire constituency from the mainstream parties to such a minority party.

Hmmm, not sure.

I'd suggest they wouldn't have even bothered with voting before going to prison. Better things to do.

But now in prison, what would have been irrelevant when they were out is now very much relevant. Afterall, everything else they had in their life over and above voting when they were free has now been removed.

A bit like house prices really. They were completely and utterly irrelevant to me until I wanted a house. I'm sure most are the same. Afterall, how many of us thought about the value of house when we were in school?

N1AK

Graham_Devon wrote:

and the concentrated populations of prisoners in a local seat DO have the ability to swing things for the area....which is why I state I don't like the idea of a prisoner being able to take part in society in this way.

I did say that the methodology would need consideration. I would suggest that their votes are treated as postal votes for their home constituency. It makes collecting the votes and keeping them private much easier and distributes them across the country.

Most students who vote do so in this way. This makes sense for society as well because it stops one voting block having disproportionate impact and also means they are voting for their area rather than somewhere they won't be for long.

N1AK

Graham_Devon wrote: »

I'd suggest they wouldn't have even bothered with voting before going to prison. Better things to do.

I agree. It wouldn't shock me to find that in some prisons the voting rate would exceed the national average. Personally I see that as a chance to try and encourage prisoners to think of themselves as a part of a wider society and a potential benefit to it rather than an outsider and enemy.

GhIFA

Graham_Devon wrote: »

Hmmm, not sure.

I'd suggest they wouldn't have even bothered with voting before going to prison. Better things to do.

But now in prison, what would have been irrelevant when they were out is now very much relevant. Afterall, everything else they had in their life over and above voting when they were free has now been removed.

A bit like house prices really. They were completely and utterly irrelevant to me until I wanted a house. I'm sure most are the same. Afterall, how many of us thought about the value of house when we were in school?

Really?? A new found interest in democracy because they've been sent to prison. I think you're overplaying this.

For example, Wandsworth is one of the largest (if not the largest) prison in the country, holding approx 1600 prisoners. Not entirely sure which constituency it falls in, but probably either Battersea or Tooting. In the last election, turnout in both constituencies was around 48-50,000, and the winning candidate got around 22-23,000 votes. So, as I said earlier, I can't see how prisoners voting is really going to make much difference to a constituency.

Mr._Pricklepants

mirry wrote: »

We need control of our own borders. Our local taxi firm uses only polish workers, they advertise in Poland.

If they only recruit in Poland, and by definition only hire Polish drivers, they are breaching the law. You should report them.

nomoreboomandbust wrote: »

Surely the solution is for everybody to boycott this taxi firm, they will soon get the message

Other firms might have Polish drivers also? What are you going to do? Call a cab and insist they don't send a Polish driver?
Oh yes and by the way, don't send me an Indian, Pakistani, or Bangladeshi driver either? :rotfl: Another UKIP voter I assume?

Sampong

Mr._Pricklepants wrote: »

If they only recruit in Poland, and by definition only hire Polish drivers, they are breaching the law. You should report them.

It's one thing reporting it. And another to prove it. Am employer, or more usually an "employment agency" can fill the Polish newspapers with adverts, and then stick a small ad in a local newspaper somewhere, or perhaps send the job to the jobcentre, to fulfill their "responsibilities" so as not to discriminate based on age, religion, race, gender, etc. They could also put a line in the ad which says "fluent in polish would be an advantage" - which obviously rules out the majority of low skilled brits and opens the doors to wherever they are recruiting from.

http://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/376039/Signs-of-Britain-s-times-a-Jobcentre-ad-in-Polish

It may sound like ridiculous technicalities, but the problem is widespread.

So who should the poster report the Taxi firm to? I doubt that any authority has the resources nor the inclination to investigate the matter fully and take action to enforce discrimination laws.