Official Free Boilers and Insulation guide discussion

writeaboutnow

captainhindsight wrote: »

All the EPC is required to do is to suggest a new boiler replacement, the EPC isn't actually used to make the calculation of the amount of savings being made and thus the amount of money available to install the new boiler.

The information from the EPC and the make and model of the new boiler is inputted into different software which calculates the saving that the new boiler will make in that individual household.

So the amount of money available is likely to vary from installer to installer and house to house.

This saving is then multiplied by the current price per unit.

The reason no or hardly any companies are installing 'free' boilers is because the price per unit is now around 7pence (11Feb2014) down from 24pence (12Feb2013), this is because the annual target has been met.

But in the new financial year it is believed this price per unit will rise and 'free' boilers will start to be fitted again.

The quickest way to get a boiler installed is not to go to one of the big six it is to go direct to a local green deal installer who can usually do the job in a couple of weeks inquiring (when the funding has gone up)

I'm a little bit confused now captainhindsight... I thought you said EPC is used to calculate the savings? (in your post of 3rd Feb: "the EPC is then used to calculate the annual savings that would be made by fitting the new boiler, the figure is then calculated by the life time of the boiler (12 years is the figure that is used). This 'lifetime savings' figure is then multiplied by the payment rate which varies month to month")

I'm just trying my best to fathom it all out through posts on here... about to appeal again in my own sweet way, to the independent company holding me to ransom, and therefore trying to knock them sideways with my knowledge

Also, I'm not clear when you say you can apply to a local green deal installer.. don't they offer boilers through another scheme altogether, which means you sign up to credit terms and then pay it off through your energy bills over a period of time? That's my understanding from having recently called one, but then he did seem somewhat confused by it all himself!

There seems to be a divide in opinion generally between various posters about the best/quickest way forward - independent and local (if you can track one down) or British Gas through EST. It's a quagmire, is all I know....

fellsider

The free boiler scheme is supposed to be there to help the most vulnerable in society.
It seems that you not only have to be vulnerable, by whatever criteria applying to yourself, but have the patience of a saint and the personality and resilience to be able to cope with disappointment and rejection.
Not to mention perseverance and the strength to take responsibility for yourself and actually plough through all the obstacles put in your way.
How many people in the situation to need a new boiler actually can do all this?
Can anyone reading this actually come on and say Yes they applied and it was straightforward and they were not made to feel bad because they found themselves in this situation to be eligible AND I got a free boiler?

captainhindsight_2

Ok the EPC must show a recommendation to replace the boiler.

Then the information used to calculate the EPC in the form of a XML file is uploaded into different software along with information about the intended replacement boiler. This creates a ECO file/report this shows the life time saving score of the boiler being fitted and this is what is used to calculate the saving.

In my original post I didn't bother to explain all of that, so apologies but provided the EPC shows a recommendation of a replacement boiler the house qualifies but the amount of saving that is used isn't shown on the EPC.

There is a savings figure on the EPC but this is not the one used (don't ask me why because i don't know)

To be able to install anything through the ECO scheme the installer must have PAS2030 certification which makes them a Green Deal Installer and they then get the funding via a ECO broker who gets the money from one of the big six energy suppliers.

Yes the Green Deal is different to ECO but you have to go to a green deal installer to get anything through ECO.

This is because when you have a ECO report/assessment it is technically a Green Deal report which is usually made up of a EPC and an Occupancy Assessment however if you fall in to the criteria for ECO you are deemed to be in fuel poverty so the copies of the benefits and the affordable warmth forms that are filled out replaces the occupancy assessment part of a Green Deal Assessment.

This is because it is thought there is no point doing the occupancy report but because as soon as your home is more efficient your heating patterns will change.

So because you are deemed to be in fuel poverty the money comes from ECO funding and NOT a Green Deal Plan (make sense??)

So the easiest way to find a company that can install a free boiler is to look on the 'Green Deal Participants' Register.

If you go to a local green deal installer (PAS2030 installer) they will be able to pop round and just say yes or no tell you when they can fit it or give you an explanation why not. (it also helps small local businesses )

If you go through one of the big energy companies you will just deal with a bunch of subcontractors who don't know anything about the scheme as a whole just the small bit that they are dealing with and you won't be able to get any explanation from them or a straight answer (in my opinion).

OAP80wallace

captainhindsight wrote: »

All the EPC is required to do is to suggest a new boiler replacement, the EPC isn't actually used to make the calculation of the amount of savings being made and thus the amount of money available to install the new boiler.

The information from the EPC and the make and model of the new boiler is inputted into different software which calculates the saving that the new boiler will make in that individual household.

So the amount of money available is likely to vary from installer to installer and house to house.

This saving is then multiplied by the current price per unit.

The reason no or hardly any companies are installing 'free' boilers is because the price per unit is now around 7pence (11Feb2014) down from 24pence (12Feb2013), this is because the annual target has been met.

But in the new financial year it is believed this price per unit will rise and 'free' boilers will start to be fitted again.

The quickest way to get a boiler installed is not to go to one of the big six it is to go direct to a local green deal installer who can usually do the job in a couple of weeks inquiring (when the funding has gone up)

Thank you Captainhindsight for a complicated but understandable explanation re charging for the 'free' boilers. I know we recipients are not the customer so to speak, but as we are the householder, i feel there should be a few 'bits of paper' given to us with proper explanations re charging. As I quoted before from the Dept of Energy and the Climate Change letter via my MP (how many coal power stations and four by fours were there when the Ice Age began to melt?) they said 'While the Govt. envisaged that measures installed under the Affordable Warmth element of the ECO would be fully subsidised, it is not a requirement.' This of course left it open to installers to charge what they liked without an explanation. I shall stop twittering now about the £280 I paid, but it did make me mad when I was allowed to think it was for 3 bits of wire in the bathroom!!!!! Thanks for everyones help and support. It helped me through.

captainhindsight_2

OAP80wallace wrote: »

Thank you Captainhindsight for a complicated but understandable explanation re charging for the 'free' boilers. I know we recipients are not the customer so to speak, but as we are the householder, i feel there should be a few 'bits of paper' given to us with proper explanations re charging. As I quoted before from the Dept of Energy and the Climate Change letter via my MP (how many coal power stations and four by fours were there when the Ice Age began to melt?) they said 'While the Govt. envisaged that measures installed under the Affordable Warmth element of the ECO would be fully subsidised, it is not a requirement.' This of course left it open to installers to charge what they liked without an explanation. I shall stop twittering now about the £280 I paid, but it did make me mad when I was allowed to think it was for 3 bits of wire in the bathroom!!!!! Thanks for everyones help and support. It helped me through.

Yes I feel that the householders/customers should have much more explanation given to them about how the scheme works. My small company does this (i'm not going to mention my company) and I try to explain the whole scheme in full (if there interested)

I'm sure all the others small independent installers do to, because we have a reputation to uphold where as the likes of the big six seem to be able to get away with murder and people keep going back...

If you have to make a contribution you should ask for a quote for the total cost of the install and how much is being paid by the grant. You should be able to judge from that it its reasonable or not.

So thats why I would urge people to go to a local supplier because I feel you will be kept much more in the loop on how it all works and the progress of your installation.

OAP80wallace

fellsider wrote: »

The free boiler scheme is supposed to be there to help the most vulnerable in society.
It seems that you not only have to be vulnerable, by whatever criteria applying to yourself, but have the patience of a saint and the personality and resilience to be able to cope with disappointment and rejection.
Not to mention perseverance and the strength to take responsibility for yourself and actually plough through all the obstacles put in your way.
How many people in the situation to need a new boiler actually can do all this?
Can anyone reading this actually come on and say Yes they applied and it was straightforward and they were not made to feel bad because they found themselves in this situation to be eligible AND I got a free boiler?

Hi Fellsider, Yes, you have to be in a position where life has not kicked you too hard to 'fight for your rights'. I have had 80 years practice and at times, I must admit, with all your help, it has kept me going. Earlier on, during the installation of the boiler, Swale Heating let the pipes coming from the ceiling drop, ripping the ceiling paper. This caused a leak which fortunately stopped quite quickly. They claimed this had nothing to do with them. After talking to Citizens Advice, who told me to quote the Goods and Services Act of 1982 to them, they agreed to send someone to look at it. As I have to decorate round the new boiler, do you know, I don't think I can be bothered to let them see it !!!It is enough that I have won that argument. PS. Yes, I have heard of ONE person whose application went smoothly, without costing her anything. Hurrah, thats one. Any more?

writeaboutnow

captainhindsight wrote: »

Ok the EPC must show a recommendation to replace the boiler.

Then the information used to calculate the EPC in the form of a XML file is uploaded into different software along with information about the intended replacement boiler. This creates a ECO file/report this shows the life time saving score of the boiler being fitted and this is what is used to calculate the saving.

In my original post I didn't bother to explain all of that, so apologies but provided the EPC shows a recommendation of a replacement boiler the house qualifies but the amount of saving that is used isn't shown on the EPC.

There is a savings figure on the EPC but this is not the one used (don't ask me why because i don't know)

To be able to install anything through the ECO scheme the installer must have PAS2030 certification which makes them a Green Deal Installer and they then get the funding via a ECO broker who gets the money from one of the big six energy suppliers.

Yes the Green Deal is different to ECO but you have to go to a green deal installer to get anything through ECO.

This is because when you have a ECO report/assessment it is technically a Green Deal report which is usually made up of a EPC and an Occupancy Assessment however if you fall in to the criteria for ECO you are deemed to be in fuel poverty so the copies of the benefits and the affordable warmth forms that are filled out replaces the occupancy assessment part of a Green Deal Assessment.

This is because it is thought there is no point doing the occupancy report but because as soon as your home is more efficient your heating patterns will change.

So because you are deemed to be in fuel poverty the money comes from ECO funding and NOT a Green Deal Plan (make sense??)

So the easiest way to find a company that can install a free boiler is to look on the 'Green Deal Participants' Register.

If you go to a local green deal installer (PAS2030 installer) they will be able to pop round and just say yes or no tell you when they can fit it or give you an explanation why not. (it also helps small local businesses )

If you go through one of the big energy companies you will just deal with a bunch of subcontractors who don't know anything about the scheme as a whole just the small bit that they are dealing with and you won't be able to get any explanation from them or a straight answer (in my opinion).

Thank you for taking the time and trouble to explain all of that... had to read it through twice but I certainly have a better grasp of it now. :T

On my EPC, the recommendation appears on the full list on page 4 and reads 'replace with condensing boiler' - is this the assessor who would have entered this, based on the type of boilers they supply? From what I have researched, I think a combi boiler is better for the size/type of my property.

I just wish there was a captainhindsight- type installer available in my neck of the woods...

captainhindsight_2

writeaboutnow wrote: »

Thank you for taking the time and trouble to explain all of that... had to read it through twice but I certainly have a better grasp of it now. :T

On my EPC, the recommendation appears on the full list on page 4 and reads 'replace with condensing boiler' - is this the assessor who would have entered this, based on the type of boilers they supply? From what I have researched, I think a combi boiler is better for the size/type of my property.

I just wish there was a captainhindsight- type installer available in my neck of the woods...

I'm not 100% on how the EPCs are calculated but if you look on the last page of the EPC it will have the assessors contact details and you maybe able to contact them and they will be able to answer questions specifically about your property.

fellsider

The assessor who took 3 hours to complete the EPC survey has obviously done his job well!
Got a phone call yesterday from a local firm who I had been referred to in January to say that all funding is in place and the install will be next Wednesday!!
All I have to pay for is a socket change to a fused spur about £80.
This is something that unfortunately there is no way around as the Electric Regs changed last April 2013 and although you are allowed to change a socket etc yourself if it is in a kitchen or bathroom a qualified electrician has to certify it.
If anyone wants the name of the company who did the referral...and I believe they are national who will put you in touch with a local company (giving credence to captainhindsights posts) please click on my name and send a private message and I'll reply.
It's possible that you may even be referred to the same company I have if you happen to be in a 20-30 mile radius of Blackburn.

writeaboutnow

captainhindsight wrote: »

I'm not 100% on how the EPCs are calculated but if you look on the last page of the EPC it will have the assessors contact details and you maybe able to contact them and they will be able to answer questions specifically about your property.

The assessor works for the installation company I'm dealing with so contact details are the same. Not sure if this is unusual? I also had a response to my request for a cost breakdown to detail exactly what my £600 would be paying for and although they are prepared to quote for materials used (for the purposes of comparing with an independent quote so I can check if they are competitive) the amount of the funding itself is of a "commercially sensitive nature" (yes I'm sure it is!!) and they refuse to spill the beans.

I am also informed that the reason some installers can carry out the work without any contribution being required is as a direct result of which energy supplier is offering the contribution and what price they are prepared to pay to purchase the energy savings made (pardon??) Also apparently, until an appointment is booked to install a boiler, there is no guarantee (even if you have been informed you are not required to contribute) that this work can be completed free of charge, as energy companies can adjust contribution levels at any time, so it is out of the hands of the installers. Does this ring true, captainhindsight?