Direct Debit Indemnity Claim - PayPal - Goods not Received

DailyClicker

Hi,

I purchased tickets to see Rolling Stones this Saturday using PayPal. I paid £600 on 9th April 2013, and the payment was funded using a Direct Debit set up.

I was under the impression that I would be covered by PayPal's Buyer Protection, however it does not apply to tickets and has a time limit of 45 days.

I've tried contacting the seller and requested his contact details from eBay. He has 100% Positive Feedback and a Feedback Score of 723, however is not contactable at all.

I spoke to HSBC on Tuesday who raised a Direct Debit Indemnity Claim on my behalf and informed me that I could use this in this situation, however they have come back to me today telling me that this is not the case and they cannot refund me.

What are my options?

Looking forward to your help, thank you :beer:

Gromitt

Have you raised a dispute via ebay?

JuicyJesus

You send the seller a letter before action, by first class post, with a copy of court forms you've filled out with the details of the claim, saying you will file them if you don't get a cheque for the amount stated within 14 days. See here for more information. Doing this tends to make cheques appear in your letterbox. You're under no obligation to actually file the forms afterwards, but usually the threat of going to court alone makes cretins pay up.

The bank are correct, Direct Debit indemnities are not for non-receipt of goods or services.

Buzby

More pertinent no indemnity claim is competent - you paid PayPal (an intermediary).

As Paypal did what they were instructed to do there has been no breach. If the ticket seller did not perform only eBay/Paypal can resolve it.

DailyClicker

Thanks for all your replies.

I stupidly completed the transaction outside of eBay, so they aren't willing to help. PayPal are not willing to get involved as transaction was made more than 45 days ago.

I've checked his eBay account and he has more items listed and has included his personal address. I have used 192.com to verify that he lives at the address, so will be sending a 'Letter Before Action'.

Is it worth getting the Police involved? What are they likely to do? Is there anything more the Bank can do for me?

grumbler

Direct Debit Guarantee

• The Guarantee is offered by all banks and building societies that accept instructions to pay Direct Debits
• If there are any changes to the amount, date or frequency of your Direct Debit the organisation will notify you (normally 10 working days) in advance of your account being debited or as otherwise agreed. If you request the organisation to collect a payment, confirmation of the amount and date will be given to you at the time of the request
• If an error is made in the payment of your Direct Debit, by the organisation or your bank or building society, you are entitled to a full and immediate refund of the amount paid from your bank or building society
  • If you receive a refund you are not entitled to, you must pay it back when the organisation asks you to
• You can cancel a Direct Debit at any time by simply contacting your bank or building society. Written confirmation may be required. Please also notify the organisation.

I don't see anything about 'goods not delivered' here.

DailyClicker

Can someone please let me know if this Letter Before Action is good to send.

My Address

His Address
Dear MR X,

Reference: PayPal - 000000000000 – 2 x The Rolling Stones – Tier 2 Golden Circle with Barclaycard Backstage Bar – Tickets not received

As it has not been possible to resolve this matter amicably, and it is apparent that court action may be necessary, I write in compliance with the Practice Direction on Pre-Action Conduct.

On 6th April 2013, I made a payment of £600.00 to your PayPal account (0000000@hotmail.com) for 2 x The Rolling Stones – Tier 2 Golden Circle with Barclaycard Backstage Bar. I emailed you on the 8th April 2013 requesting to view the Confirmation Email from the original order for the tickets. You informed me that you were receiving these tickets from your boss and answered all my questions promptly. On 28th May 2013 you promised to email me within 24/48 hours with an update, however I never received any reply. Since this date, I have tried contacting you via email, eBay message and mobile phone but have not received a single reply. As the concert is on the 6th July 2013, I have purchased replacement tickets from elsewhere so no longer require your tickets.

From you I am claiming a full refund of the £600.00 paid, as well as an additional £11.94 which was incurred whilst trying to locate and confirm your postal address using 192.com, bringing the total amount owed to £611.94.

Listed below are the documents on which I intend to rely in my claim against you:

• PayPal Receipt
• Copy of Email Communication

In closing, I would draw your attention to section II (4) of the Practice Direction which gives the courts the power to impose sanctions on the parties if they fail to comply with the direction including failing to respond to this letter before claim.

I look forward to hearing from you within the next 28 days. You can contact me via the address above, or by email to 00000@00000.com.
Should I not receive a response to my letter within this time frame, then I anticipate that court action will be commenced with no further reference to you, and I will be reporting this fraudulent transaction to the Police.

Yours sincerely,

Gromitt

I'd be expecting an acknowledgement within 14 days, and a reply within 28 days, that way if he doesn't bother to acknowledge your letter, you can commence court proceedings earlier if he has no intention of replying.

I wouldn't bother mentioning the police.

Keep a copy of the letter and remember to send it recorded delivery so you have proof of posting and proof of delivery.

You may also need to include proof of your 192.com expenditure in tracking him down, but I'd keep that until he replies (or court if he doesn't)

JuicyJesus

Gromitt wrote: »

Keep a copy of the letter and remember to send it recorded delivery so you have proof of posting and proof of delivery.

Nope. First class. Recorded delivery can be refused or ignored, as if the person isn't in they won't get delivered it and if they don't want to receive it they just won't sign for it. Meanwhile, if you send something first class with free proof of posting, a court will consider it to have been delivered two working days after posting.

Gromitt

JuicyJesus wrote: »

if you send something first class with free proof of posting, a court will consider it to have been delivered two working days after posting.

Really? I remember being told that "Proof of posting is not proof of delivery".

Saying that, I've only used the courts once, so I'm not exactly experienced!

JuicyJesus

Gromitt wrote: »

Really? I remember being told that "Proof of posting is not proof of delivery".

Saying that, I've only used the courts once, so I'm not exactly experienced!

It's not proof of delivery, but to courts and the FOS, amongst others, it's considered "as good as" delivered two working days later unless there is specific evidence to the contrary.

Common advice on the House Buying and Renting board (when discussing serving of legal documents) is to send the same documents first class twicethrough two different Post Offices and get proof of posting from each, to ensure that a) you aren't !!!!!!ed by one of the Post Offices making a mistake and b) whoever you want to get the papers can't refuse delivery of them or otherwise fail to receive them. Best case, they get the documents twice; worst case, they either get one or none but either way they will be considered to have been delivered.