We’d like to remind Forumites to please avoid political debate on the Forum.
This is to keep it a safe and useful space for MoneySaving discussions. Threads that are – or become – political in nature may be removed in line with the Forum’s rules. Thank you for your understanding.
Debate House Prices
In order to help keep the Forum a useful, safe and friendly place for our users, discussions around non MoneySaving matters are no longer permitted. This includes wider debates about general house prices, the economy and politics. As a result, we have taken the decision to keep this board permanently closed, but it remains viewable for users who may find some useful information in it. Thank you for your understanding.
📨 Have you signed up to the Forum's new Email Digest yet? Get a selection of trending threads sent straight to your inbox daily, weekly or monthly!
The case for identity cards
Comments
-
grizzly1911 wrote: »I personally don't want one and don't see what value it would add to me as an individual. I don't want to carry any more junk in my wallet.As you say most key information is already logged an available.
The one thing I do have against it is the black hole called cost. As previously expressed the costs would just spiral.
£70 to renew a passport for instance - renew, not new or change. How do they justify that. £20 to renew a driving license, not new or change.
If an ID card cost £5 lasted for ever and I could scrap the passport and driving license you might gain my interest.
Yep, that and convenience would be my only interest too. Despite playing devils advocate its really not an issue for me in the least, not the tiniest bit, but I am always intrigued how people react to it
. I don't think people are wrong to necessary either, (i am right wing, and i am pro less beurocratic process, not more ...in general). its just I find it fascinating that its such a buzzword when other information sources aren't.
For example, the subject of British terrorists came up.
Forgive my very poor memory for actual figures, I will try and get them as accurate as I can, but I fully accept they may be incorrect....I am very flawed in the head
The argument against stop and search is that it takes 16 mins on average to complete a stop and search. These lead to very few arrests. (I just cannot remember the figure but its few). This figure was agreed as being shockingly low and outcry was that instead patrol was needed. Aiui its actually far higher than number of arrests on patrol ) I do not know what the impact on reduction on crime for the visibility on the PARTICULAR AREA, of patrol or stop and search was reported as being?
Anyway. A verifiable ID could potentially cut down the time of stop and search process considerably in curtain cases. To totally, because fake copies would remain an issue (if we are talking brave new worlds I think we have to consider bipmetric elements though surely
).
Realistically I do not think carrying an ID card, of the nature carried in our EU neighbours for example, would have any real impact on terrorism. In a brave new world, yes, I think it could improve policing. By then, of course, none of us will care, but I'll be able to pay with everything on my wrist implanted microchip come ID card and ditch the hold alls for pretty clutch bags. 0 -
lostinrates wrote: »Yep, that and convenience would be my only interest too. Despite playing devils advocate its really not an issue for me in the least, not the tiniest bit, but I am always intrigued how people react to it. I don't think people are wrong to necessary either, (i am right wing, and i am pro less beurocratic process, not more ...in general). its just I find it fascinating that its such a buzzword when other information sources aren't.
For example, the subject of British terrorists came up.
Forgive my very poor memory for actual figures, I will try and get them as accurate as I can, but I fully accept they may be incorrect....I am very flawed in the head
The argument against stop and search is that it takes 16 mins on average to complete a stop and search. These lead to very few arrests. (I just cannot remember the figure but its few). This figure was agreed as being shockingly low and outcry was that instead patrol was needed. Aiui its actually far higher than number of arrests on patrol ) I do not know what the impact on reduction on crime for the visibility on the PARTICULAR AREA, of patrol or stop and search was reported as being?
Anyway. A verifiable ID could potentially cut down the time of stop and search process considerably in curtain cases. To totally, because fake copies would remain an issue (if we are talking brave new worlds I think we have to consider bipmetric elements though surely).
Realistically I do not think carrying an ID card, of the nature carried in our EU neighbours for example, would have any real impact on terrorism. In a brave new world, yes, I think it could improve policing. By then, of course, none of us will care, but I'll be able to pay with everything on my wrist implanted microchip come ID card and ditch the hold alls for pretty clutch bags.
why does it take 16 minutes for a stop and search?
why would a ID reduce the time taken?0 -
why does it take 16 minutes for a stop and search?
why would a ID reduce the time taken?
I believe that in certain circumstances Id would reduce time if it could be verified who the subject of stop and search was. It might just be that the process of dialogue of ID card cuts down barriers...or gives rise to dispute leading to arrest earlier (whether this is arrest for 'reason' or arrest due to protest against stop and search who can tell?...
I have no idea why it takes 16 mins for stop and search. I've never searched someone...not like that.. I would imagine some of the time is preamble though. No ones ever done it to me either, and I do not have real information on this. 0 -
The ongoing process of 'civilisation', which imho will be a never-ending process, becomes more and more driven by technology. The process of civilisation is, imho, a process of forcing individuals to conform to a set of man-made rules and regulations. No other species feels the need to impose a process of 'civilisation' upon its members.
I like lostinrates idea of a wrist-implanted chip - I wonder if it would be possible to include a wrist-implanted SIM card, with a wireless connection to the personal communication device of our choice.
This would allow us all to be tracked at all times, and would possibly be able to provide recorded evidence of many of our activities. On the news today, a taxi-driver successfully defended himself against the false claims of a drunken female passenger because he had recorded her behaviour on his phone.
Freedom takes many forms.
TruckerTAccording to Clapton, I am a totally ignorant idiot.0 -
Or maybe that it's a fundamental infringement of liberty to do that systematically just on the hope that it might catch someone doing something illegal?lostinrates wrote: »The argument against stop and search is that it takes 16 mins on average to complete a stop and search.
That it takes a long time is a good thing, not a bad one. It adds a useful practical disincentive to it being a more widespread activity than it already is.0 -
The police use technology to check on the story behind any motor vehicle which has been properly registered with DVLA, and they get immediate information which helps them to enforce the law.
If there is no negative information recorded against the vehicle, then there is no problem for either the police or the vehicle's driver.
I don't see the problem with extending that idea to individual people on the street.
TruckerTAccording to Clapton, I am a totally ignorant idiot.0 -
The police use technology to check on the story behind any motor vehicle which has been properly registered with DVLA, and they get immediate information which helps them to enforce the law.
If there is no negative information recorded against the vehicle, then there is no problem for either the police or the vehicle's driver.
I don't see the problem with extending that idea to individual people on the street.
TruckerT
How much does that cost?
Where do you think a good chunk of the VED goes?"If you act like an illiterate man, your learning will never stop... Being uneducated, you have no fear of the future.".....
"big business is parasitic, like a mosquito, whereas I prefer the lighter touch, like that of a butterfly. "A butterfly can suck honey from the flower without damaging it," "Arunachalam Muruganantham0 -
grizzly1911 wrote: »How much does that cost?
Where do you think a good chunk of the VED goes?
I don't think it matters! The system works, and vehicle crime is kept under control. DVLA successfully manages many millions of vehicle registrations, and many millions of driver licences (with many varying 'terms and conditions').
It is affordable.
CCTV has been proved to be effective, and most of us are 'on camera' many times a day without experiencing any invasion of privacy.
How much more effective could CCTV be, if it were also possible to pick up an identifying signal from a wrist-implanted identity tag?
TruckerTAccording to Clapton, I am a totally ignorant idiot.0 -
lostinrates wrote: »I believe that in certain circumstances Id would reduce time if it could be verified who the subject of stop and search was. It might just be that the process of dialogue of ID card cuts down barriers...or gives rise to dispute leading to arrest earlier (whether this is arrest for 'reason' or arrest due to protest against stop and search who can tell?...
I have no idea why it takes 16 mins for stop and search. I've never searched someone...not like that.. I would imagine some of the time is preamble though. No ones ever done it to me either, and I do not have real information on this.
I assume you are making the assumption that carrying ID cards will be compulsory.
In my view this won't happen in my lifetime: as after 365 days of continuous riots and maybe 100,000 arrests the government of the day will give up and will anyway be unelectable for the next 20 years.
ID cards as evidence to receive specific services are a different animal.0 -
ID cards as evidence to receive specific services are a different animal.
Presumably that is how they would be introduced if they did.
Not sure it makes the argument any more convincing."If you act like an illiterate man, your learning will never stop... Being uneducated, you have no fear of the future.".....
"big business is parasitic, like a mosquito, whereas I prefer the lighter touch, like that of a butterfly. "A butterfly can suck honey from the flower without damaging it," "Arunachalam Muruganantham0
This discussion has been closed.
Confirm your email address to Create Threads and Reply
Categories
- All Categories
- 352K Banking & Borrowing
- 253.5K Reduce Debt & Boost Income
- 454.2K Spending & Discounts
- 245K Work, Benefits & Business
- 600.6K Mortgages, Homes & Bills
- 177.4K Life & Family
- 258.8K Travel & Transport
- 1.5M Hobbies & Leisure
- 16.2K Discuss & Feedback
- 37.6K Read-Only Boards