The case for identity cards

nicko33

dryhat wrote: »

(note breaking the law is not the same as doing something illegal)

Sorry, the distinction is lost on me. Can you explain?

lostinrates

bugslet wrote: »

Yes, but I don't have to hand it over to prove who I am. I can't remember the last time I was asked for it. IIRC, part of having ID cards was to either carry them at all times or produce them within a certain time period.

If I'm wearing a coat or jeans, a night out is usually handbag free! I feel this is the real nub of the issue now:rotfl:

I seem to have to prove who I am fairly regularly. Mainly with bills. Which is a big deal as I don't pay any. And I stupidly have stuff in more than one name which gets confusing. This year I will probably finish transition to married name in all but one maiden name bank account which I will always keep.

I seem to cart my marriage cert around far too often, Try fitting THAT in a clutch! (I like dresses, so no pockets on nights out.....). It's ok if the boss is there, otherwise a wrist embedded microchip would be grand.

Yes, with I'd card you carry them at all times or produces them like a Seven day wonder.

Moby

Out,_Vile_Jelly wrote: »

You've clearly never lived in tinpot countries where corrupt police and spotty teenagers clutching rifles as part of "national service" can demand to see your papers at any time.

Actually I have and didn't have the experience you describe....and it wouldn't have to be the same here. So much simplistic nonsense written about this subject. Thousands of people in this country are already disenfranchised because they don't have ID docs!

grizzly1911

Moby wrote: »

Actually I have and didn't have the experience you describe....and it wouldn't have to be the same here. So much simplistic nonsense written about this subject. Thousands of people in this country are already disenfranchised because they don't have ID docs!

Who exactly?

lostinrates

grizzly1911 wrote: »

Who exactly?

It's surprising the amount of stuff you cannot get without bills in your name, even with a birth certificate, and marriage cert, and drivers licence.

Its a strong argument against using both maiden and married name concurrently that's for certain!

As a solvent, married person with no dire need to access anything much its not a huge issue. It's slightly frustrating I couldn't get my own blockbuster card I suppose! If something were to happen to DH, I am aware things would be very sticky for a few months. We keep meaning to put things in joint names but never get around to it. If I were in someway 'oppressed' that not getting around to it could be a whole other level of feeling suffocated and removed from society I think.

kabayiri

Implementation of a national ID card system would be a centralised system with a target user base approaching 30m.

Like it or not, there are errors and problems with the seed data, used to populate that system.

It would be entirely possible to see :-
a) people issued with the wrong id card
b) people issued with multiple cards
c) people issued with no cards.

Management of deaths and the resulting removal of their cards from circulation would also be prone to inertia, delay and potentially abuse.

As an experiment as to how bad id data would affect you, try cutting up all your bank cards - cancelling all your direct debits. Now try and reactivate your banking setup with your neighbours passport and utility bill. I can imagine it might get frustrating pretty quickly.

N1AK

lostinrates wrote: »

It's surprising the amount of stuff you cannot get without bills in your name, even with a birth certificate, and marriage cert, and drivers licence.

Its a strong argument against using both maiden and married name concurrently that's for certain!

That's generally because recent bills show you are using, or at least have access to, that address. An ID card wouldn't automatically stop people wanting to see recent documents with your address on them.

Using ID cards to solve this minor little problems makes as much sense as locking up kids who fight in school to stop them becoming violent criminals later on; it may partially solve the problem but the cost incurred is far worse.

lostinrates

N1AK wrote: »

That's generally because recent bills show you are using, or at least have access to, that address. An ID card wouldn't automatically stop people wanting to see recent documents with your address on them.

Using ID cards to solve this minor little problems makes as much sense as locking up kids who fight in school to stop them becoming violent criminals later on; it may partially solve the problem but the cost incurred is far worse.

Agreed.


But if I were one of the people who had not driving licence (in fact, its likely I might have to surrender mine at some point) and I no longer have an in date passport.....suddenly....I my position as identifiable becomes increasingly tenuous. Looking at it the other way round, being able to prove we are entitled to be here (recent talk of NHs entitlement, and illegal immigration) is also worth considering. Am I legally here and hard to identify or am I here illegally using your NHs and stealing you women (or men)?

I think and extra ID card makes little sense. (And infant, despite playing devils advocate a lot I really don't care either way). A simplified system....and ID card that allows eu travel and reaches passport within eu, has some merit for some.

Niv

We dont need a stand alone ID card. Just make passports a requirement, if you want a carry around card (rather than the 'booklet' a passport is) then it can be part of the 'pack' i.e a driving licence has a card and a paper portion.

grizzly1911

lostinrates wrote: »

..and ID card that allows eu travel and reaches passport within eu, has some merit for some.

Might not be needed in the future?