The case for identity cards

fiesta04

lostinrates wrote: »

Why can we not have one of these, with various entitlements added. (Travel, entitlement to drive various vehicles, penalty points etc etc). Would it not be simpler to have one document for all of this?

We should

To "chip" people, of course should be done at birth/ entry to Country. Just beware as you reach OAP status BOOM!!!

One less Pension to pay. Cynical well maybe. :rotfl:

F4

simongregson

It wouldn't be a one off as the population changes and new cards would need to be issued on an ongoing basis, although the initial cost would be higher. In ballpark figures, we are talking billions... Is it wise to spend this for very little potential return. Hospitals would still treat emergency cases without the cards so I very much doubt that the £30 million per year even would be recovered.

TruckerT

simongregson wrote: »

It wouldn't be a one off as the population changes and new cards would need to be issued on an ongoing basis, although the initial cost would be higher. In ballpark figures, we are talking billions... Is it wise to spend this for very little potential return. Hospitals would still treat emergency cases without the cards so I very much doubt that the £30 million per year even would be recovered.

These days, talking 'billions' is normal...

DVLA is possibly the most successful of the many government IT systems which have been tried in recent decades.

Driving Licences are issued on an ongoing basis.

NHS tourists would be discouraged - emergencies are a different kettle of fish.

TruckerT

globalds

Look someone has done a few sums ..

http://www.migrationwatchuk.co.uk/briefingPaper/document/140

Not sure if I agree with all of this ..but some of it seems to be reasoned well.

fiesta04

To pay for ID cards is so simple.... just stop Overseas Aid.

Why should we give away so much money when our economy is in a mess? If we must give it away, give them the value in Bonds that UK tax payers have "purchased"

F4

Moby

TruckerT wrote: »

We are hearing more and more about the need to deny unaffordable services to people who have no entitlement (mostly housing and NHS).

The permutations of possible eligibility are so numerous that even the border agency cannot see the wood for the trees.

So how can doctors, landlords etc be expected to do the work of the border agency?

The population is now so huge that identity cards are an urgent necessity - short-term visitors should be given a short-term identity card which would clearly show their entitlements.

TruckerT

I could never understand the opposition to ID cards. Having one would solve so many problems.

MacMickster

The problem with ID cards is where would they stop?

Would we be required to carry them at all times?

What information would they contain? Criminal records? Medical records?

Who would be entitled to demand that you "show me your papers" and read the information on the card? Police? Traffic Warden? Neighbourhood watch? Employer? Doctor? Pharmacist? Bank clerk? Checkout worker?

Of course, once you give people "powers" over others it is never long before those powers are abused.

The UK has got along quite nicely without identity cards so far. No need to give up our privacy (even more) now.

antrobus

simongregson wrote: »

The current cost of non-eu use of the NHS that isn't recovered is around £30 million according to the news today.

Somewhere between £33m and £200m apparently.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/health/10151282/Crackdown-on-NHS-health-tourists.html

simongregson wrote: »

...How much would rolling out a national identity card cost?

Back in 2006 the answer was £540m a year over 10 years, and that was only for a partial system.

http://www.computerweekly.com/news/2240078661/ID-cards-to-cost-54bn-over-10-years

TruckerT wrote: »

The rollout cost would be a one-off - NHS costs would continue to increase......

If you're advocating ID cards on the basis that it would save money on NHS costs, then clearly your argument fails if the costs of ID cards vastly exceeds any expected savings. You have to do the maths first.

alleycat`

TruckerT wrote: »

The rollout cost would be a one-off - NHS costs would continue to increase.

TruckerT

No it wouldn't.

People Breed & Die
Equipment ages.
Most IT equipment is replaced on a 3 to 5 year asset write off basis.
People move about a lot.

The MACD's(moves, adds, changes, deletes) on an ID system are going to be massive for 70+ million users.

ID readers will break, be lost, stolen, hacked and all need replacing.

Passports mostly work as they are used in specific places.
Ditto driving licenses.
Most checks used to verify age are casual.

ID cards to enforce anything need real online, intime systems really checking them.

They would also be a massive centralised target for fraud because UK Government don't know how to do IT properly.

It also doesn't work if you have people who are injured, have jobs using chemicals that damage fingerprints (as an example).

The problem is, as was alluded to, that it will become a silver bullet for everything until something goes wrong and you are out of luck when computer says no.

CLAPTON

for large It systems there is a general rule of thumb (which like all rules of thumb is not accurate but is of some use)

the system of the system is split somewhat like this

1/3 goes to 'build' the system

1/3 goes to implmenet the system

1/3 goes in recurring ongoing costs to actually operate the system

so when talking about an national ID system the key issues are the scope of the system and the ongoing costs rather than the build cost.