Anti-Social Driving/Tailgating fines

Idiophreak

Joe_Horner wrote: »

What's a reasonable (and safe) gap in the inside traffic to move into is a judgement call which no two drivers will agree on.

It might be, or it might not be. If a driver's sat in the middle lane with nothing for a mile in front or behind inside him, you'd struggle to find someone to disagree that they should move over.

I imagine, if they try enforcing this at all, they'll only be using it for the worst offenders who would have roughly zero chance of using the defense you suggest, should they appeal.

Joe_Horner

Idiophreak wrote: »

...but the trouble is, middle lane hoggers is only one reason why people undertake. If you've got two lorries passing one another, you end up with 50 cars lined up in the outside lane waiting to get past...Then you have Mr White Van who gets tired of tailgating you and flashing his lights, weaves between traffic in the middle and inside lanes then goes and forces his way in right behind the lorries...You can target the causes all you want, but you have to address the symptom too...

Soryy, Idio, I was aiming for a back-handed agreement with your post there An MLM may be annoying, but the tailgater / undertaker is actually dangerous. To me, those who cause danger are (at least, should be) far more culpable than those who may be annoying no matter what the circumstances.

Joe_Horner

Idiophreak wrote: »

I imagine, if they try enforcing this at all, they'll only be using it for the worst offenders who would have roughly zero chance of using the defense you suggest, should they appeal.

That was sort of the point I was making. Which means that it'll make no difference at all in the minds of those who start flashing lights and complaining of MLMs when someone (rightly) refuses to take that 50 yd gap

almillar

I disagree with just about everything jayjay88 says.

I really don't see what the problem is with staying in the middle lane on a motorway. If people want to overtake they can go in the fast lane

What's the point in having 3 lanes then?! One of the first things you're taught when you learn to drive is DRIVE ON THE LEFT.

You can't realistically be in the slow lane because it is filled with lorries, caravans and elderly drivers doing about 40mph

Anyone doing 40 on a motorway should be kicked off, that's dangerously slow. Exception being large/towing vehicles on hills.

Constantly weaving in and out of the slow lane would cause more problems than sticking to the middle

This I do agree with. But if you have to do it so quickly that it counts as weaving, then you're overtaking legitimately and are in the correct lane.

On the other hand I do have a problem with people queue jumping. When there is a long line of traffic waiting for some congestion and some arrogant **** just shoots past in the lane on the side an expects to get in the front. Wait your turn like everyone else.

No. We've covered this before on here, and this is off topic, but if you're describing a situations where 2 lanes merge into one, EVERYONE should queue in BOTH lanes. When the arrogant **** comes along, he will find one queue exactly ONE vehicle shorter than the other and join it. Meanwhile at the front, one person from the left lane goes, one from the right, one from the left. This is what the Highway Code tells you, it's sortof known as the zipper rule, and it's law in Germany.
Next time you see that arrogant ****, follow him instead of making the queue twice the length.

Idiophreak

almillar wrote: »

No. We've covered this before on here, and this is off topic, but if you're describing a situations where 2 lanes merge into one, EVERYONE should queue in BOTH lanes. When the arrogant **** comes along, he will find one queue exactly ONE vehicle shorter than the other and join it. Meanwhile at the front, one person from the left lane goes, one from the right, one from the left. This is what the Highway Code tells you, it's sortof known as the zipper rule, and it's law in Germany.
Next time you see that arrogant ****, follow him instead of making the queue twice the length.

I think they were referring to the situation where something's holding up the middle lane, so everyone queues in the outside lane waiting to pass...

Tinks74

Idiophreak wrote: »

If a driver's sat in the middle lane with nothing for a mile in front or behind inside him, you'd struggle to find someone to disagree that they should move over.

If you find yourself on a motorway with nothing for a mile in front or behind does it really matter what lane you are in? You would not be causing an obstruction, annoyance or danger to any other vehicle.


But as has been pointed out earlier in the thread some drivers need to realise that a gap in traffic is not always a space to pull in to.

Herzlos

It's a good point about what counts as middle lane hogging.

I'll often stay out in the middle lane if there's a gap but I'm gaining on the vehicle in the left lane or can see it's going to be slow, on the assumption that I'll be pulling back into the middle lane very shortly and it's safer/easier to just stay in position. I'll do the same if I'm approaching a slip road too, in case anything is about to join.

Presumably both are fine, but where is the line?

fivetide

Tinks74 wrote: »

If you find yourself on a motorway with nothing for a mile in front or behind does it really matter what lane you are in? You would not be causing an obstruction, annoyance or danger to any other vehicle.


But as has been pointed out earlier in the thread some drivers need to realise that a gap in traffic is not always a space to pull in to.

There have been a number of accidents caused by people driving in the outside lane when they don't need to though.

Loocal Lord Ahmed. Killed that guy on an empty motorway having slammed into a car that had come to rest in the central reservation.

If he'd been driving on the left (and not on the phone of course) like he should have been, he'd have missed it as accidents to the inside can go to the hard shoulder not bounce back into the carriageway.

Personally, i find nothing unsafe about moving from the left to the middle and back as needed.

Very common in Europe, especially in Germany where you get out of the way of the 150mph M5 as quickly as possible. Just seems to be an issue in this country.

maninthestreet

There is far too much subjectiveness involved in deciding whether a driver's actions are 'careless' or not to put the power into the hands of individual police officers.

Mrs_Imp

jayjay88 wrote: »

You can't realistically be in the slow lane because it is filled with lorries, caravans and elderly drivers doing about 40mph.

It's not the 'slow' lane. That's why a lot of people drive in the middle lane. They think that it's the slow lane, and 60 isn't slow.

My instructor taught me that the left lane is the driving lane, and the other two are overtaking lanes.

Some of the excuses on Jeremy Vine for middle lane driving were ridiculous, eg the left-hand lane is too bumpy :rotfl: