Anti-Social Driving/Tailgating fines

forgotmyname

If someone can undertake then there would usually be enough room/time for you to move to the left.

I was on the M6 on a Saturday evening, Heading south towards the M1 (S). I must have undertaken at least a dozen cars. And not once did i move out from the left hand lane. Cruising between 60 and 70mph, So not speeding either.
(I am not undertaking i am passing on the left because the traffic to the right is moving slower than me. Weaving in and out is different matter.)

Yet most of them still sat in the middle lane, I must have woken a couple of them up because they pulled over as i passed them. But mostly they just sit in the middle lane.

Try the M5 south in the early hours on a Sunday morning. If you dont find at least one person between J1 and J4 sitting in the middle lane on an empty motorway i will eat my car.

Never seen a police car though.

jayjay88

Seems different people agree with different rules here and disagree with others. I really don't see what the problem is with staying in the middle lane on a motorway. If people want to overtake they can go in the fast lane. You can't realistically be in the slow lane because it is filled with lorries, caravans and elderly drivers doing about 40mph. Constantly weaving in and out of the slow lane would cause more problems than sticking to the middle. But I agree people in the middle should not be driving slow as well, and should stick to 70mph.

On the other hand I do have a problem with people queue jumping. When there is a long line of traffic waiting for some congestion and some arrogant **** just shoots past in the lane on the side an expects to get in the front. Wait your turn like everyone else.

mattyprice4004

jayjay88 wrote: »

Seems different people agree with different rules here and disagree with others. I really don't see what the problem is with staying in the middle lane on a motorway. If people want to overtake they can go in the fast lane. You can't realistically be in the slow lane because it is filled with lorries, caravans and elderly drivers doing about 40mph. Constantly weaving in and out of the slow lane would cause more problems than sticking to the middle. But I agree people in the middle should not be driving slow as well, and should stick to 70mph.

On the other hand I do have a problem with people queue jumping. When there is a long line of traffic waiting for some congestion and some arrogant **** just shoots past in the lane on the side an expects to get in the front. Wait your turn like everyone else.

If there is enough room on your left to move over, you HAVE to move over. If you can't deal with that, kindly move to another country with different rules.

If I want to drive along at 70 and suddenly catch you up pottering in the middle lane when there's nothing to the left because you're too lazy to move over (heaven forbid you'll have to move out again 2 miles later!) why should I have to go L2 - L3 - L2 - L1 just because you're too daft to know how to use a motorway?

Also, there's no such thing as a 'fast lane'. You keep to the left unless overtaking!

Learn to drive. I welcome these laws as it means people may actually read the Highway Code and have a clue what to do behind the wheel.

Joe_Horner

verityboo wrote: »

Err, the cause of people getting frustrated and undertaking is drivers who hog the middle lane. Best to target the cause rather than the effect?

Idiophreak wrote: »

Not really, two wrongs don't make a right.

People undertaking causes others to cut their stopping distances (to try and stop them cutting in), prevents people moving into the correct lane and can easily cause accidents. Frustrated or not, people shouldn't be doing it.

Staying in the middle lane can be annoying and inconsiderate. It doesn't present a danger to others.

Undertaking or tailgating because you can't control your annoyance creates danger.

So, as verity says, tackle the cause and hammer those who show poor self-control at the wheel

Mankysteve

vaio wrote: »

Nah, phone use attracts points.

As for the rest of it, all those offences are already perfectly well covered by existing laws, my thinking is it's just another pull on the udder of the cash cow that is motorists.

If they want to bring in new laws maybe make politicians taking bribes illegal or close some of the loop chasms that exist in the big company tax laws

The problem with tail gateing/ middle lane hogging is that currently its classed as dangerous driving and has to go though the courts to prosecute the offender which takes time and money.

Who cares if a cash cow for the government if you can't do the time don't do the crime as the old saying goes.

Don't do it if you don't want to pay it. I no angel when driving but I won't cry if I get get caught I'd admit what's my fault.

alleycat`

Joe_Horner wrote: »

Staying in the middle lane can be annoying and inconsiderate. It doesn't present a danger to others.

Disagree, you are forcing people to make a much larger maneuver "at speed" than is necessary.

It is the height of lazy driving and shows a total lack of awareness to what is going on around you.

Idiophreak

Joe_Horner wrote: »

Staying in the middle lane can be annoying and inconsiderate. It doesn't present a danger to others.

Undertaking or tailgating because you can't control your annoyance creates danger.

So, as verity says, tackle the cause and hammer those who show poor self-control at the wheel

...but the trouble is, middle lane hoggers is only one reason why people undertake. If you've got two lorries passing one another, you end up with 50 cars lined up in the outside lane waiting to get past...Then you have Mr White Van who gets tired of tailgating you and flashing his lights, weaves between traffic in the middle and inside lanes then goes and forces his way in right behind the lorries...You can target the causes all you want, but you have to address the symptom too...

Joe_Horner

jayjay88 wrote: »

Constantly weaving in and out of the slow lane would cause more problems than sticking to the middle.

Funny how the "anti MLM" brigade ignore that aspect.

What's a reasonable (and safe) gap in the inside traffic to move into is a judgement call which no two drivers will agree on. Yet all too often you see the car behind starting to get aggressive as soon as you don't take a gap that they think is ok - quite often that gap is smaller than the recommended following distance already and they want you to shoehorn another car into it!!

It'll be interesting to see the first few challenges in court on that because I'd suggest the defence would go something like this:

Considerate driving requires that you don't act in a way to require other drivers to alter their speedor course.

In order to move to the left lane without either forcing the car you're moving in front of to slow down, or driving to close to the car ahead, the absolute minimum gap you should move into would be 4 seconds in good conditions so you maintain the minimum recommended 2 second gap ahead and behind. At 60mph a 4 second gap is 106m, or just over the length of a football pitch. Moving into anything less would have been inconsiderate to the drivers in the left lane.

My client made the judgement that it was better to slightly inconvenience the person behind him, who was being frustrated by his inability to exceed the speed limit, rather than forcing the drivers in the left lane, who were happy to drive at legal speed, to react to an inconsiderate manoeuvre.

Aretnap

Mankysteve wrote: »

The problem with tail gateing/ middle lane hogging is that currently its classed as dangerous driving and has to go though the courts to prosecute the offender which takes time and money.

Not quite. Tailgating might be classed as either careless driving or dangerous driving depending on the speed, distance, level of aggression etc. It's hard to imagine how middle lane hogging could ever be dangerous driving by itself - it's more likely to be classed as driving without reasonable consideration for other road users. Currently there's no fixed penalty for careless or inconsiderate driving, which as you note creates a disincentive to take action as all cases have to go through the courts. That's what's changing. The definitions of careless, inconsiderate and dangerous driving don't seem to be changing, and nothing which is currently legal is becoming illegal - and if the driving is bad enough to be classed as dangerous it will still need to go through the courts (quite rightly as dangerous driving is a serious crime involving a mandatory one year ban and possible jail time).

Joe_Horner

alleycat` wrote: »

Disagree, you are forcing people to make a much larger maneuver "at speed" than is necessary.

It is the height of lazy driving and shows a total lack of awareness to what is going on around you.

No you're not.

Their own impatience (often at being prevented from exceeding the speed limit anyway) and their lack of self control in the face of that impatience is what "forces" them to make that manoeuvre.

I'm not advocating sitting forever in the middle lane, but people often start showing aggression long before there's a genuinely reasonable gap available to pull into. That's not only inconsiderate in itself, it also becomes dangerous when they tailgate or try to undertake as a result.