fine at work... disciplinary threat

LittleMax

OP asked about disciplinary threat - I am responding that they could face disciplinary for bringing organisation into disrepute.

Stroma

LittleMax wrote: »

OP asked about disciplinary threat - I am responding that they could face disciplinary for bringing organisation into disrepute.

Don't be ridiculous this is just a breach of terms and conditions of a third party company, the hospital if it tries to take a displinary could be open to a claim if they took action because of it. The only remedy for this ultimately is the small claims.

Also ukcps must abide by certain things in the bpa code of practice, and appeals can be heard independently of both them and the hospital, and that is binding on the parking company. Over 60% of those are upheld as a whole, with our help its far higher.

Also we see many of these situations with trusts, they very seldom go further, and when they do they waste public money, the reason is that they get normally a hiding in court, or don't bother going forward because of the defence put up.

sue.b1

I will ignore the morality police, they are unaware of the actual situation. Thanks for the advice. I'll update you.

LittleMax

Stroma wrote: »

Don't be ridiculous this is just a breach of terms and conditions of a third party company, the hospital if it tries to take a displinary could be open to a claim if they took action because of it. The only remedy for this ultimately is the small claims.

Also ukcps must abide by certain things in the bpa code of practice, and appeals can be heard independently of both them and the hospital, and that is binding on the parking company. Over 60% of those are upheld as a whole, with our help its far higher.

Also we see many of these situations with trusts, they very seldom go further, and when they do they waste public money, the reason is that they get normally a hiding in court, or don't bother going forward because of the defence put up.

You are focusing only on the parking enforcement by the third party company. Were someone to have seen a staff member parking in a disabled bay and complained to the individual's employer about it they could be disciplined. OP has already said that she told her boss about it. She is lucky her boss is clearly not switched on enough to have worked out that the company could take disciplinary action, it's just nothing to do with non payment of the invoice. (edit from fine to invoice)

Take a supermarket car park as another example. If employees parked in the disabled bays, the customers would be outraged, and the management would take disciplinary action against the staff.

trisontana

Except that it's not a "fine", it's an unenforceable invoice.

ILW

If management have told you (one way or another) not to park in disabled bays. Then they should discipline any non disabled member of staff that does. The bays are there for a reason.

LittleMax

trisontana wrote: »

Except that it's not a "fine", it's an unenforceable invoice.

I have edited my post accordingly ... doesn't change it - OP can still be disciplined.

pogofish

If they do take this to a disciplinary, OP will need to insist the employer produces a copy of their contract with the PPC to confirm this is not an ex-gratia situation - Which is the norm for PPC contracts, specifically to severely limit the contractural relationship/obligations both ways. And if it is ex-gratia, there is no question of the org's disciplinary process involving itself in a dispute with a private company.

However, if its not an ex-gratia contract (which would be a first IME), I could see how it then opens-up a huge can-o-worms for the OP's employer as it would make them jointly and severally liable for the PPC's various illegal activities.

marlot

sue.b1 wrote: »

... However an e mail has been sent to all staff saying parking fines & issues arising will be passed to managers who may take disciplinary action against offenders....

People on here may be expert at parking law, but probably less well informed on employment issues.

I'm assuming the threat of disciplinary is not for ignoring a parking company's tickets, but for not following your employer's instruction not to park there.

Employment law allows disciplinaries for all sorts of reasons, and I'm sure that they would easily find a way for "obstructing disabled patients" to be one.

I wish you well in your protest, but if you want to continue parking where you do, I'd make sure your union is happy to back you up on the employment law side.

Edited to add:

From http://www.roydens.co.uk/content33.htm

"Minor Acts of Misconduct Misconduct offences broadly fall within two categories – those that justify instant dismissal without notice or payment in lieu (often referred to as gross misconduct) and less serious offences which may ultimately lead to dismissal with notice if repeated more than once.
Examples of the latter category include bad time-keeping, unreasonable or unexplained absence, persistent or irregular absenteeism, minor damage to an employer’s property, smoking in no-smoking areas, use of obscene or offensive language, etc. It is highly advisable for employer’s to set out a non-exclusive list of examples in their disciplinary procedure."

Stroma

LittleMax wrote: »

You are focusing only on the parking enforcement by the third party company. Were someone to have seen a staff member parking in a disabled bay and complained to the individual's employer about it they could be disciplined. OP has already said that she told her boss about it. She is lucky her boss is clearly not switched on enough to have worked out that the company could take disciplinary action, it's just nothing to do with non payment of the invoice. (edit from fine to invoice)

Take a supermarket car park as another example. If employees parked in the disabled bays, the customers would be outraged, and the management would take disciplinary action against the staff.

Because the only issue is the parking incident, which ukcps have issued. We are only dealing with that right now. That is why I mentioned previously that the contract of employment and parking policy of the trust is key. If its not in there they cannot normally discipline people.

Sending out emails is not a guarantee that terms have been changed. Emails may not be delivered for various reasons. If they took this to a disciplinary they could be open to a claim themselves. Yes maybe that person shouldn't park in a disabled bay, but as parking bays on private land are just pretty patterns on Tarmac they will have a very difficult job on that side of things.

And finally if this goes to popla and its upheld its outside of the hospital's hands, the ticket must be cancelled. If its cancelled and the hospital tries then for a disciplinary then again they have huge problems. As popla says they are not liable.