not the driver

seadreaming

Hi

Since the new rules in October 2012, if you receive an invoice and you were not the driver, do you have to tell the parking company who was?
I received an invoice, wrote to parking eye to say it wasn't me who was driving that day (&can prove this) and have had a letter back saying that they "have the right to recover any unpaid part of the parking charge [from me] the registered keeper" and they also give me a warning (though I'm not sure about what exactly) under the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012.

I'm thinking of now ignoring them after reading lots of the forum posts.

Many thanks in advance
sd

Umkomaas

Advice now is not to ignore.

We really could do with a timeline of when the parking 'offence' occurred and the dates of correspondence to you from PE and when you responded to them.

The Protection of Freedoms Act 2012 brought the Registered Keeper into play. However the PPC cannot demand you reveal who the driver was; they can only 'invite' you to name the driver.

You do need to decide if YOU are going to fight this (so no need to name the driver) or completely avoid any further correspondence/hassle from PE by naming the driver, after which he/she will need to deal with it (with our help).

You really should be doing one or other - ignoring is no longer recommended in the case of Parking Eye.

Are you able to scan and upload the PE response to your letter? Please obliterate anything in it that links it to you - name, address, car reg, invoice number, location, date etc.

Coupon-mad

seadreaming wrote: »

Hi

Since the new rules in October 2012, if you receive an invoice and you were not the driver, do you have to tell the parking company who was?
I received an invoice, wrote to parking eye to say it wasn't me who was driving that day (&can prove this) and have had a letter back saying that they "have the right to recover any unpaid part of the parking charge [from me] the registered keeper" and they also give me a warning (though I'm not sure about what exactly) under the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012.

I'm thinking of now ignoring them after reading lots of the forum posts.

Many thanks in advance
sd

You should be taking this to POPLA now. You've been reading lots of the wrong, old threads because we haven't advised to IGNORE for a couple of months now!

Have PE given you a POPLA code, read current threads now and DO NOT IGNORE:

http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/forumdisplay.php?f=163

Was this an alleged few minutes overstay (usual PE scam)? Any reason for overstay by the driver or passenger such as elderly/disabled/medical reason?

seadreaming

Thanks for the info.
I'm happy to fight this & take it to popla appeal if that is the next step. The letter I've recently received dated 30th May does not give any popla code. It says that the parking charge has been placed on hold for 14 days in order for me to provide additional/further evidence.
So do I write back and say I wish this to now go to appeal with popla? And then do they then send me a code?
I can prove that I wasn't the driver so is that all the appeal will ask me to provide evidence of?

Many thanks for your help with this.
sd

Further to the above I've just been reading some posts that highlight a letter template stroma drew up saying I won't respond to any further letters that don't have a popla code & uses the word 'keeper' as opposed to driver- this looks like a good template for me to use I think.

Umkomaas

Proving you were not the driver doesn't really help you as POFA 2012 provided PPCs the ability to chase the Registered Keeper (RK) if the driver details were not provided to them. I presume you are the RK?

As they will be pursuing the RK, the timeline of events is important as, should the PPC 'slip' in terms of strict criteria by when certain actions should have been taken, then their case becomes very shaky.

So -

Date the 'offence' occurred
Date of receipt of first letter - Notice to Keeper (NtK)
Date of your appeal

If these dates cause the PPC to be non-compliant then you can simply write back telling them so, and demanding they cancel the charge.

If they are compliant you can simply tell them you have nothing further to add and ask them to send you the POPLA code to which you are entitled.

You can, of course, very easily get rid of this completely - that is to provide the PPC with the driver's details, after which they should drop all further contact with you and, instead, pursue the driver. The driver will then get the paperwork to deal with - it's up to you!

HTH

Coupon-mad

Umkomaas wrote: »

Proving you were not the driver doesn't really help you as POFA 2012 provided PPCs the ability to chase the Registered Keeper (RK) if the driver details were not provided to them. I presume you are the RK?

As they will be pursuing the RK, the timeline of events is important as, should the PPC 'slip' in terms of strict criteria by when certain actions should have been taken, then their case becomes very shaky.

So -

Date the 'offence' occurred
Date of receipt of first letter - Notice to Keeper (NtK)
Date of your appeal

If these dates cause the PPC to be non-compliant then you can simply write back telling them so, and demanding they cancel the charge.

If they are compliant you can simply tell them you have nothing further to add and ask them to send you the POPLA code to which you are entitled.

You can, of course, very easily get rid of this completely - that is to provide the PPC with the driver's details, after which they should drop all further contact with you and, instead, pursue the driver. The driver will then get the paperwork to deal with - it's up to you!

HTH

Yep - seadreaming you can just compare the above in bold to Schedule 4 of the Protection of Freedoms Act as summarised here:

http://www.parkingcowboys.co.uk/keeper-liability/

Not sure why you keep mentioning not being the driver when that doesn't matter.

seadreaming

I am the RK. The date of the offence was 2/5/13. I received the first letter 10/5/13, wrote back to them on the 23/5/13 and received a reply on 1st June which is the one saying the charge is on hold for 14 days (so I need to reply in next 2-3 days). No appeal code on this second letter. The original offence was for overstaying in a car park by just under 12 mins (you don't have to pay to stay in the car park, it's a fixed max 2 hour car park).

I'm happy to pursue this myself and only mention the RK info again because ultimatley if at an appeal I will have to give the details of the driver then I might as well do so now. If I don't have to then I feel so far into it now that I don't see the point of someone else having to get their head around it.

Thank-you again. I'm trying to get up to speed with the knowledge as best I can.
sd

hoohoo

You never have to give the name of the driver, but you lose the right to once Parking Eye start 'proceedings' against you, which they can do 28 days after the Notice to Keeper.

Parking Eye have been know to cancel if you spent enough in the shops (£30 ish) so it is worth trying that angle.

Meanwhile, if the car park was for one shop, go to that shop and get them to cancel the ticket. Keep pressing until you get to the right level of manager to do this.

Finally, if any kind of disability applies to the driver, then let us know and Coupon Mad will tell you how to proceed.

Finally, finally, if all that fails come back here to get help with your POPLA appeal, which you will win and will cost the PPC £27 and the BPA £110+ and you nothing.

Coupon-mad

seadreaming wrote: »

I am the RK. The date of the offence was 2/5/13. I received the first letter 10/5/13, wrote back to them on the 23/5/13 and received a reply on 1st June which is the one saying the charge is on hold for 14 days (so I need to reply in next 2-3 days). No appeal code on this second letter. The original offence was for overstaying in a car park by just under 12 mins (you don't have to pay to stay in the car park, it's a fixed max 2 hour car park).

I'm happy to pursue this myself and only mention the RK info again because ultimatley if at an appeal I will have to give the details of the driver then I might as well do so now. If I don't have to then I feel so far into it now that I don't see the point of someone else having to get their head around it.

Thank-you again. I'm trying to get up to speed with the knowledge as best I can.
sd

Simply write back in the third person again (as the registered keeper) deliberately sent to arrive around 35 days after they would have got your first appeal. Write along the lines discussed before on other threads:

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/4580179

Never divulge the driver or you lose the 'protection' that rk liability actually gives you under the POF Act!


HTH

seadreaming

Again thank-you for all the info and links to other threads. I've read through these and some other posts and I feel fairly clear:
wait now until the last week of June (the close to 35 day mark) and then write back along the lines of 'you haven't given me the code in the time your meant to' type of letter.
I guess they might after this 14 day 'on hold' (I realise that it still all goes by the first letters) write to me with a code anyway. In which case onto the appeal stage.

My only other query at the moment after having read some posts on other threads is that although I wrote saying I want to appeal & made reference to popla appeal I did not specifically ask for a code. There is a mixture of posts on these - I think generally people seem to be saying I didn't have to, saying I want to appeal was sufficient & how would someone know they have to ask for a code (I thought I'd read so much before sending the first letter but somehow managed to not find anything about asking for the code!). Do I still hang on or do I need to specifically need to write to ask for a code? Apologies if this is a silly question. All this new found knowledge is helping to spread the word though - met two people recently who'd had these invoice letters and were about to send off cheques - they were as gobsmacked as I was to discover what a big scam it all is.
sd

nigelbb

Page 6 of the recently published annual report of Lead Adjudicator of POPLA (my emphasis)

If the representations are not accepted the operator must send the rejection
notice to the motorist with the reasons for the rejection. They should also include
an appeal form, as well is the verification code, allowing the motorist to appeal to
POPLA. In the case of online representations, the appeal form can be replaced
by a link to the POPLA website but must always include the verification code.
Operators should not need to be asked for this by the motorist.

http://www.britishparking.co.uk/write/Documents/AOS/POPLA_report_embargoed_until_2pm_4.6.13.pdf