not the driver

Coupon-mad

seadreaming wrote: »

Hi
So following on from my initial query re 'not the driver' and gemming up on things via the forum, I wrote to Parking Eye appealing, received no code, waited until the 35 day mark and then wrote to them last week using the letter guidance given along the lines of 'time has now lapsed so invoice should now be cancelled'. Today I received a letter - I'm guessing standard stuff they send out but wondering what I should now do?
The letter basically says 'your recent appeal has been unsuccessful. This is because I did not provide sufficient evidence to show to show that I didn't break the terms and conditions of the signage. We also note that a number of your queries are of a generic nature, a number of which we have seen before'
They then provide a page & half of FAQ's & then info on how to appeal and a page with 'POPLA parking on private lands appeal' at the top but I can't see a code anywhere.

Wait! There MUST be a 10 digit code, I am certain they would not send a form to you now without it.

Look on the form itself. Is there a 10 digit code which follows this format as posted by Jack155 on pepipoo?

http://forums.pepipoo.com/index.php?showtopic=77510&st=80&p=817998&#entry817998

When you find the code what is the date is was generated (going by Jack155's decoding info)?

seadreaming wrote: »

Do I now have to go through the appeals process with POPLA depsite the time lapse & no code given (the original reference number is on it)

Always amazes me when people ask that. On the one hand you have Parking Eye running rampant and taking people to small claims and frightening them, bullying people into paying for NO SERVICE at all. On the other hand you have the option of POPLA, a simple single form appeals process where we KNOW how to word an appeal so it will be likely to win for you and get the whole scam cancelled.

And yet you are wondering 'do I have to?' :eek: YESSS!!! We can help you to win this.

seadreaming

There is no 10 digit code. I've looked all over & got someone else to - the absence of it is the only reason why I wonder if I go to appeal just yet - or maybe it is more evidence in my favour. The only number given anywhere is the pcn number which is 6 digits/6digits.
At the very bottom of the form I have to fill in are two boxes one says 'verification code' - it is empty and the other says 'operator hereby certifies that rejection notice and this form were sent to appelant on' - it has a date from last week in it.
SD

Coupon-mad

Right you will have to respond and demand a new one generated next week so you are not disadvantaged. No please, no thankyou, just a short adamant demand and enclose a photocopy of the form to prove it's blank. Say the code is missing and you must have a new one (not the old one if they ever did generate one, as that wouldn't give you the 28 days you are entitled to).

Give them, say, 5 days to respond with a NEW fresh verification code or you will send an official complaint to the BPA and DVLA AOS compliance teams.

seadreaming

Thanks.
Will do a letter this evening along the lines of 'you sent me a appeal rejected letter and a form for appealing to POPLA. However there was no verification code - I have attached a photocopy as proof. Kindly send me another form with an appeals code as a matter of urgency'.

Do I say that I'll complain to BPA & DVLA if not received within 5 days? Or do I just do that if not received?

Most grateful again for your input.
SD

Coupon-mad

I would say that and definitely give them a very short deadline to provide the code. And by the way I bet it will be the original code - you will be able to tell the date it was generated from this:

http://forums.pepipoo.com/index.php?showtopic=77510&st=80

Post #84 explains how to tell when your POPLA code starts...

seadreaming

So I now have a Popla appeal form with a code on it. Following the link on the forum about how to find out when it was generated it seems to have only been generated end of last week.

I've been doing some reading of threads re the appeal and I think the points that I can use are:
1) Parking eye did not accept or reject appeal within 35 days

2) request Parking Eye to identify thecreditor to whom the parking charge is due as required by the Protection ofFreedoms Act;

3) request Parking Eye provides proof of ownership of the land or anycontract from the land owner providing authority to collect any charges

4) The parking charge is disproportionate to parking on the site (free)

Points I'm less certain about using are:
a) the first appeal form (sent after the 35 days) did not have a verification code on
b) Parking Eye does not specify the reasonable period permitted to leave the land after the end of the contract prior to takingenforcement action;
c) how much to include re appropriate signage (e.g. not at seated driver's window height)
d) evidence that the cameras comply

and saw this in one link but not really sure what it means
e) the vehicle was not ‘parked’ in excess of the maximum stayperiod within the meaning of the terms and conditions;

I'll start to draw up some paragraphs re 1 - 4. Is it advisable to quote previous successful cases that cover any 1-4?

Thanks in advance
SD

Umkomaas

seadreaming wrote: »

So I now have a Popla appeal form with a code on it. Following the link on the forum about how to find out when it was generated it seems to have only been generated end of last week.

I've been doing some reading of threads re the appeal and I think the points that I can use are:
1) Parking eye did not accept or reject appeal within 35 days

2) request Parking Eye to identify thecreditor to whom the parking charge is due as required by the Protection ofFreedoms Act;

3) request Parking Eye provides proof of ownership of the land or anycontract from the land owner providing authority to collect any charges

4) The parking charge is disproportionate to parking on the site (free)

Points I'm less certain about using are:
a) the first appeal form (sent after the 35 days) did not have a verification code on
b) Parking Eye does not specify the reasonable period permitted to leave the land after the end of the contract prior to takingenforcement action;
c) how much to include re appropriate signage (e.g. not at seated driver's window height)
d) evidence that the cameras comply

and saw this in one link but not really sure what it means
e) the vehicle was not ‘parked’ in excess of the maximum stayperiod within the meaning of the terms and conditions;

I'll start to draw up some paragraphs re 1 - 4. Is it advisable to quote previous successful cases that cover any 1-4?

Thanks in advance
SD

Hit them with as many points to deal with as possible as they need to prove they have every legal and proprietary right to issue the claim against you.

In terms of (2) above, it's not about requesting them to identify who the creditor is - they will simply say 'Us', point answered! PoFA 2012 requires them to identify 'the creditor' in the NtK. If they've failed to have done this, then this is the point for POPLA - that their NtK was non compliant and therefore your appeal should be upheld.

Here is a very good example of a POPLA appeal with loads of points to require the PPC to prove their entitlement - if they fail on any one, then game over, appeal upheld by POPLA. So go for broke and list everything from it that relates to our case. Even if in doubt, list it in your draft, let us see it and you'll get some further advice if it's felt certain points are not applicable.

http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showpost.php?p=62472201&postcount=32

HTH

Coupon-mad

I favour a LOT about signage because PE signs fail to meet the BPA CoP in my experience. I like to quote the CoP on signage and Lord Denning (bear in mind the POPLA adjudicators are young law graduates). So here are some examples:

Post #59 is suggested wording to add to a POPLA appeal, about unclear signage, except you'd need to remove the bits about P&D machines and paying money, as yours was a free car park:

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/4632455

and see this one, post #2, make it nice and clear with headings so it's readable:

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/4695227

You do need 'unlawful unenforceable penalty' as a heading as in that one, in which I quoted legal cases you can use too. And also of course, no Grace period (time allowed to drive in, find a space, park, read the signs, then at the end, get in the car and queue to leave past the cameras) seeing as you were only '12 minutes over' based on cameras at the entry and exit! No 'grace period' - BPA Code of Practice 13.4 and 19 breach - example paragraph appears in this version, post #4 written by me as SchoolRunMum on pepipoo:

http://forums.pepipoo.com/index.php?showtopic=79545&st=0&gopid=826768

HTH, happy copying & pasting!

seadreaming

Thanks for all the advice and tips. I've completed a draft letter but can't see how to attach it to this message (might be because I'm too new to the site?). It's 4 pages long which seems a lot to copy and paste but maybe that is the only way?
thanks
SD

hang3r

You could always upload the file to one of those storage websites (e.g. speedyshare.com) and a give a link to it here. Or copy paste the text from the file to pastebin .com as not to clutter the forum.