We’d like to remind Forumites to please avoid political debate on the Forum.
This is to keep it a safe and useful space for MoneySaving discussions. Threads that are – or become – political in nature may be removed in line with the Forum’s rules. Thank you for your understanding.
Debate House Prices
In order to help keep the Forum a useful, safe and friendly place for our users, discussions around non MoneySaving matters are no longer permitted. This includes wider debates about general house prices, the economy and politics. As a result, we have taken the decision to keep this board permanently closed, but it remains viewable for users who may find some useful information in it. Thank you for your understanding.
📨 Have you signed up to the Forum's new Email Digest yet? Get a selection of trending threads sent straight to your inbox daily, weekly or monthly!
Referendum on its way
Comments
-
Mr._Pricklepants wrote: »Did you ever get to vote in a referendum on Trident? On whether to go into Iraq or not? On HS2? Is that undemocratic then?
Well, bar Iraq, those things don't touch our lives quite so much. It's more a money issue.
As for Iraq, has there ever been a time in history where there is a referendum held on whether a country should go to war?0 -
Graham_Devon wrote: »Well, bar Iraq, those things don't touch our lives quite so much. It's more a money issue.
As for Iraq, has there ever been a time in history where there is a referendum held on whether a country should go to war?
How about having a vote each year to either approve or reject the measures laid out in the Queen's speech?
Or wind turbines, that's another one that keeps getting 'steam rollered' through, often against the wishes of the majority.0 -
Dangerous game. Labour won't want to be cast as the party that opposed a referendum. If they sidestep the trap, the Tories could win the votes.
In good company then, the poster boy eurosceptic Portillo, now says that he is against a referendum
'Just think for a moment what a prospect that is. A single market without barriers visible or invisible giving you direct and unhindered access to the purchasing power of over 300 million of the worlds wealthiest and most prosperous people' Margaret Thatcher0 -
Graham_Devon wrote: »As for Iraq, has there ever been a time in history where there is a referendum held on whether a country should go to war?
I don't think so, and it shouldn't, that's my point.
In an ideal world, political parties lay out their intentions and policies pre-election, and these include a broad range of issues, fiscal, economic, health, education, defense,...and our place in the EU.
The electorate votes, and that's democracy.
Turning to the voters on a single highly complex issue like our relation to the EU is a mistake.
e.g. Here's a link to directive 883/2004 on the coordination of social security systems.
http://eur-lex.europa.eu/LexUriServ/LexUriServ.do?uri=OJ:L:2004:166:0001:0123:EN:PDF
Can you please read the 123 pages and gives us your opinion on whether this is good or bad for the UK and where you think amendments should be made? (No, I haven't read it either)
Do we really expect the british public to have an understanding??0 -
Mr._Pricklepants wrote: »Did you ever get to vote in a referendum on Trident? On whether to go into Iraq or not? On HS2? Is that undemocratic then?
Isn't the difference that by giving power to the EU we are removing that power from our elected parliament, almost certainly permanently. We can vote for a party that would get troops out of Afganistan or scrap trident but we can not vote for a party that will change laws of the free movement of EU citizens to the UK or adjust the working time directive or remove the CAP to reduce our weekly grocery bills.I think....0 -
Isn't the difference that by giving power to the EU we are removing that power from our elected parliament, almost certainly permanently. We can vote for a party that would get troops out of Afganistan or scrap trident but we can not vote for a party that will change laws of the free movement of EU citizens to the UK or adjust the working time directive or remove the CAP to reduce our weekly grocery bills.
Hi michaels. Yes, but you can vote for a party that wants further integration or a party that wants to stay in but renegociate powers back and you can vote for a party that wants to pull out.
My point was that these matters shouldn't be decided in referenda.0 -
But we have treaty obligations. And the EU has no procedure for countries to leave. It will have to invent one. Untangling ourselves will take years, and by that time, we'll have chnaged our minds.angrypirate wrote: »The bill should say - in the event of the majority of voters voting no, the government will withdraw from Europe over the following 12 months"It will take, five, 10, 15 years to get back to where we need to be. But it's no longer the individual banks that are in the wrong, it's the banking industry as a whole." - Steven Cooper, head of personal and business banking at Barclays, talking to Martin Lewis0 -
Mr._Pricklepants wrote: »....The subject matter is simply too complex for the ordinary citizen to understand.
That's one point of view.
On the other hand, I'm not that convinced that those 650 ordinary citizens that sit in the House of Commons are any different from the 62 million odd ordinary citizens that don't.0 -
And the EU has no procedure for countries to leave.
A bit short sighted - must have been politicians that threw it together;).
Good back out plans are essential."If you act like an illiterate man, your learning will never stop... Being uneducated, you have no fear of the future.".....
"big business is parasitic, like a mosquito, whereas I prefer the lighter touch, like that of a butterfly. "A butterfly can suck honey from the flower without damaging it," "Arunachalam Muruganantham0 -
grizzly1911 wrote: »A bit short sighted - must have been politicians that threw it together;).
Good back out plans are essential.
And untrue. It's in article 50 of the Treaty of Lisbon.
A Member State which decides to withdraw shall notify the European Council of its intention. In the light of the guidelines provided by the European Council, the Union shall negotiate and conclude an agreement with that State, setting out the arrangements for its withdrawal, taking account of the framework for its future relationship with the Union.
http://www.lisbon-treaty.org/wcm/the-lisbon-treaty/treaty-on-European-union-and-comments/title-6-final-provisions/137-article-50.html0
This discussion has been closed.
Confirm your email address to Create Threads and Reply
Categories
- All Categories
- 352.1K Banking & Borrowing
- 253.5K Reduce Debt & Boost Income
- 454.2K Spending & Discounts
- 245.1K Work, Benefits & Business
- 600.7K Mortgages, Homes & Bills
- 177.4K Life & Family
- 258.9K Travel & Transport
- 1.5M Hobbies & Leisure
- 16.2K Discuss & Feedback
- 37.6K Read-Only Boards