Referendum on its way

pqrdef

A Tory back-bencher is introducing a Private Member's Bill for an EU referendum. The bill was drafted at Tory HQ and Tory back-benchers will be ordered to support it.

Of course it won't be Government policy, but No 10 has said it's pleased, except for the cupboard that Nick Clegg lives in.

What a way to run a country. Cameron is now going to lead the government one way and the party the other way on two issues - whether to have a referendum, and which way to vote in it.

A while ago somebody said his features hadn't formed into a face. No shortage of faces now.

grizzly1911

Whether it is right or wrong to leave the EU who really knows?

What I very much doubt is that we will ever leave (politically it won't be allowed to happen) but it will waste an awful lot of time that should really be spent on real problems.

This action could be another "chaff throwing manoeuvre"engineered at party level to look as though they doing something when there will never be enough air to get it off the ground. Just enough wind to blow it around a bit.

pqrdef

grizzly1911 wrote: »

This action could be another "chaff throwing manoeuvre"engineered at party level to look as though they doing something when there will never be enough air to get it off the ground. Just enough wind to blow it around a bit.

Dangerous game. Labour won't want to be cast as the party that opposed a referendum. If they sidestep the trap, the Tories could win the votes.

angrypirate

If you actually read the draft bill, although it called for a referendum on Europe before the end of 2017 there is no mandate in that bill for the government to act on the results of the referendum.

So following the referendum, there is nothing to stop the government simply hold another referendum a month later, then another one a month later, then another one until they get the desired results.

The bill should say - in the event of the majority of voters voting no, the government will withdraw from Europe over the following 12 months after the referendum (or something along those lines) - in much the same way the Scottish referendum for being part of the UK says.

lewisa

In the grand scheme of history, the current 'will-we-wont-we' about referendums is irrelivent.

The slow drawn-out process of UK leaving the EU began when John Major obtained the Euro opt-out during the Maastricht Treaty negotiations.

This point is argued strongly in 'Au Revoir, Europe. What if Britain Left the EU' by David Charter. It is a pretty balenced book looking at both pro and con equally. But on the point of will-we-wont-we, the fact that 'we will' is pretty hard to avoid.

Graham_Devon

grizzly1911 wrote: »

Whether it is right or wrong to leave the EU who really knows?

What I very much doubt is that we will ever leave (politically it won't be allowed to happen) but it will waste an awful lot of time that should really be spent on real problems.

This action could be another "chaff throwing manoeuvre"engineered at party level to look as though they doing something when there will never be enough air to get it off the ground. Just enough wind to blow it around a bit.

You could either see it as a waste of time and money, OR the ability for us to have our voice and politicians HAVING to change.

If they don't change, the electorate will simply change who they vote for, as seen recently.

I guess the real question should be how lon can this go on for without erupting? It hasn't erupted yet, but it will do if the main parties simply won't allow us a voice, or won't respond to the voice we have put forward recently.

A country voting to leave the EU, only to be told they won't be allowed and it was all a waste of time will be even more angry than they are now.

Something will have to change. Doesn't neccesarily have to be physically leaving the EU though.

Mallotum_X

Deep down though do people really care. As a nation we all like to moan about it but it would appear that the vast majority of people that don't like the EU do so on the basis that its full of foreigners and they hate our sausages or some other Sun inspired rubbish.

GhIFA

Mallotum_X wrote: »

Deep down though do people really care. As a nation we all like to moan about it but it would appear that the vast majority of people that don't like the EU do so on the basis that its full of foreigners and they hate our sausages or some other Sun inspired rubbish.

I think the majority of people are fairly ambivalent about it. This is a big fuss being created by some Tory mp's who feel under threat from UKIP - seems to me to be a vocal minority (both within and without parliament) whipping themselves up into a frenzy and seeming to think that this view is replicated across the electorate.

angrypirate

GhIFA wrote: »

I think the majority of people are fairly ambivalent about it. This is a big fuss being created by some Tory mp's who feel under threat from UKIP - seems to me to be a vocal minority (both within and without parliament) whipping themselves up into a frenzy and seeming to think that this view is replicated across the electorate.

I disagree, but even if it is a minority lets do some numbers:
Say the minority is 20% of the electorate, lets assume 50% of these are already Tory voters. This means 10% of the total electorate it matters to and are not currently Tory voters. If even half of these switch to vote Tories then that would probably be enough to cost Labour the General Election in 2015.

Graham_Devon

Mallotum_X wrote: »

Deep down though do people really care. As a nation we all like to moan about it but it would appear that the vast majority of people that don't like the EU do so on the basis that its full of foreigners and they hate our sausages or some other Sun inspired rubbish.

I think they do.

Question Time for example keeps going on about the EU. No ones being a racist or even using the language. It's just got to people now. More so I guess as it's being used by our government as a reason for our econmic woes.

Question time is on tonight. There will likely be another discussion on it, and none of it involves the sort of talk you mention.

It seems to me a genuine concern, and writing off the growing number of people with that concern as rabid sun readers or racists of some sort is only going to fuel it further.

michaels

If it doesn't matter and people don't really want to leave surely it is best if ther eis a referendum to confirm this.

And if people want to vote yes to leaving for reasons you personally find 'silly' then why not start campaigning for an end to democracy so that reasonable opinons (such as your own) can determine how the country is run.